EPISODE SUMMARY
Scaling a SaaS company is no small feat. The journey is filled with challenges, from generating leads to closing deals and building a robust sales team.
On a recent episode of Scale Your SaaS, host and B2B SaaS Sales Coach Matt Wolach sat down with Brian Parks, Co-founder and CEO of Bigfoot Capital, to discuss how SaaS companies can make strategic financial decisions to fuel their growth. Brian, with his extensive background in financial services and SaaS, shared valuable insights on choosing the right type of capital, the importance of alignment, and common mistakes founders should avoid.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 331, “Is Debt or Equity Financing Better – with Brian Parks”
Guest: Brian Parks, Co-founder & CEO of Bigfoot Capital
Host: Matt Wolach, a top B2B SaaS Sales Coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Sponsored by: Leadfeeder
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
The Need for Strategic Capital
Brian’s journey into the world of SaaS financing began with his observation of a significant gap in the market. After spending several years in financial services and transitioning to the SaaS space, he noticed that while many companies heavily relied on equity-based financing, there needed to be more awareness and availability of debt solutions that could provide a more diversified capital stack. This realization led to the founding of Bigfoot Capital, which supported B2B software businesses by offering them strategic credit facilities.
“For us, it’s about understanding where a company is and what it’s trying to do in the near to midterm,” Brian explained. He emphasized that while equity financing is often necessary for companies aiming for massive growth, debt can be a valuable tool for companies looking for more moderate increases. The key is understanding the company’s goals and aligning the capital strategy with those objectives.
Common Mistakes to Avoid
Raising capital can be daunting for early-stage software founders, and there are several pitfalls to avoid. Having raised money for various endeavors over the past 15 years, Brian advised software founders to approach fundraising as a severe and organized sales process. “You have to be very organized, diligent, and just on top of how you go about it,” he stressed.
One of the founders’ most significant mistakes was not fully understanding their options and rushing into decisions that could limit their future flexibility. It’s essential to clearly understand what you’re trying to achieve and how different types of capital can help you achieve it.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
When to Choose Debt Over Equity
One of the critical decisions SaaS founders face is whether to pursue debt or equity financing. According to Brian, this decision shouldn’t be an either/or scenario. “It can be debt and equity, and often should be,” he noted. The decision hinges on what the company is trying to achieve and its current growth stage.
For Bigfoot Capital, the focus is on companies with at least $2 million in revenue. This threshold ensures the company has enough financial stability to handle debt, which must be repaid. Brian warned against taking on debt too early, as it could back founders into a corner, forcing them to raise another round of equity under less-than-ideal conditions.
What Investors Look For
When evaluating potential companies to back, Brian highlighted the importance of alignment. While the financial fundamentals are crucial—such as revenue scale, customer composition, and sales efficiency—the qualitative aspects also play a significant role. “We’re not just looking at the numbers; we care about who’s running the company, how committed they are, and what markets they serve,” he said.
One of the critical factors that Bigfoot Capital examines is the company’s go-to-market strategy. Brian emphasized that having a solid sales machine in place is vital. Investors want a proven ability to generate leads consistently and close deals. “We love it when folks such as yourselves are in the mix,” he told Matt, acknowledging the importance of having experts who can help companies build and refine their sales processes.
Conclusion
Scaling a SaaS company requires more than a great product; it demands strategic financial planning and the right partnerships. Brian Parks and Bigfoot Capital are committed to helping SaaS founders navigate this complex landscape by providing the capital and support they need to achieve healthy growth. Whether considering debt, equity, or a combination, understanding your options and aligning your capital strategy with your business goals is crucial.
If you’re a SaaS founder looking to scale, take a page from Brian’s playbook: Be strategic, stay informed, and always align your financial decisions with your long-term vision.
TOP QUOTES
Brian Parks
[03:25] “When you’re considering funding, the first thing to think about is whether you want to give up equity or keep control by using debt.”
[15:50] “Debt can be a great tool if you know your growth trajectory and have the revenue to support it. It’s all about understanding your risk tolerance.”
[28:04] “One common mistake SaaS founders make is not aligning their funding strategy with their business goals. It’s critical to have a clear plan and stick to it.”
Matt Wolach
[12:11] “A lot of founders get caught up in the idea of raising as much money as possible without really considering the long-term impact on their ownership and decision-making power.”
[21:33] “It’s important to know when the timing is right for funding. If you rush into it, you might end up in a situation that’s not ideal for your company’s future.”
LEARN MORE
To learn more about Big Foot Capital, visit: https://bigfootcap.com/
You can also find Brian Parks on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/parksbrian/
For more about how Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com.
Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free trial: https://www.leadfeeder.com/
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Check out the whole episode transcript here:
Matt Wolach 00:00
Hello and welcome to Scale Your SaaS. I am your host Matt Wolach and our goal here is to help you do exactly that. Let’s scale your company. How do you generate a whole bunch of great leads? How do you make sure you’re closing those leads? And how do you set up a sales team so that you can get someone else doing all that work for you? If you want to know any of those things, absolutely hit the subscribe button right now. That way you’ll get notified about all of the upcoming episodes, and you will be able to scale your SaaS. And what we do here is we talk with people who help you understand how to scale. So we bring in guests from many different areas, people who are experts and really the innovators in the world of SaaS, so that they can show you what you can do to improve and grow. And one of those people, one of those experts, is here with us today. I’m really excited that I’ve got Brian Parks with me. Hey, Brian, how you doing today?
Brian Parks 00:45
Doing great. You brought the energy there, Matt. Gonna try to match it.
Matt Wolach 00:49
good. I love it. I know you can. Let me tell everybody who you are, Brian. So Brian is the Co-founder and CEO at Bigfoot Capital. And really Bigfoot, they’re committed to really being a strategic supporter and providing credit facilities to establish B2B software businesses. Brian brings decades of experience in both financial services and SaaS as the founder and CEO of Bigfoot capital. And prior to Bigfoot, he has honed his skills in various positions across a variety of companies, most notably as the co-founder of Brandfolder. Really this company. It’s founded on the principles of stability, support, partnership. By the way, those are all fantastic if you’re looking for a financing partner. And Bigfoot capital strives to be an aligned partner with for SaaS companies who are focused on achieving healthy growth. So really, Brian knows his stuff. He’s done it. He’s helping people do it now, and I’m really excited to chat with him. Brian, thanks for being here.
Brian Parks 01:42
Awesome. Yeah, happy to be here. Thanks for having me.
Matt Wolach 01:45
Cool. So tell me, what have you been up to lately and what’s going on?
Brian Parks 01:50
Yeah, we’re looking to fund some some great software companies, Matt. That’s pretty much it. So we’ve been doing this since 2017, Coming up on eight years. We’ve worked with about 54 companies. So we’re, you know, so to speak, in growth mode ourselves and looking to put out, you know, meaningful amounts of capital into companies that we align with. So that’s really where our focus is right now is kind of growing our portfolio and bringing companies on board.
Matt Wolach 02:14
I love it. I want to hear about how it all happened. What got you into this? What told you, okay, we need to, we need to set this up and start helping these companies?
Brian Parks 02:22
Yeah, so if you rewind the tape, so you reference Brandfolder, and I’ll get that, get to that in a minute, but kind of my multiple decades, two decades graduate school, 20 years ago. So about the first six, seven years of my career were spending, kind of pure play financial services. So doing investment making. I was an M&A investment banker doing primarily selling companies outside of tech, and saw people have really good outcomes from those companies that they had committed to over a number of years. In 2010 I jumped into software companies, really, as an operator, and that’s kind of, you know, I was employee one in an online travel distribution startup. I then started what became an enterprise software company, Brandfolder and the digital asset management space, had a couple of other gigs. And as part of kind of that seven years there’s kind of seven in financial services, seven in early stage operating and now Coming up on eight. And in Bigfoot, you know, I raised some angel money. I raised some venture money. I had a lot of friends and peers that did the same thing. And it was all kind of equity based, which is fine, but there was really no debt solution that folks were really aware of to have a true capital stack, so a diversified stack of capital that has, you know, shared but somewhat different interests and objectives at the end of the day. And so prior to getting into software, you know, I saw that in a bunch of companies that none of which had raised venture capital. They may have raised Angel they may have raised some bank financing, or non bank financing, which is what we do. They may have had mezzanine debt in there. So there was just a much broader array of capital products available to those companies than there were to the software companies that I had operated in. So that’s what led to forming Bigfoot. Saying, Hey, can we still work with and support these types of companies where we’ve had experience, but provide them with slightly differentiated form of capital.
Matt Wolach 04:07
I love it. Seeing that need and filling that gap is great. So if you’re a SaaS founder, which I’ve been and a lot of people out there are listening, are, why do you choose debt or equity? How do you make that decision, and when is the right time to do either?
Brian Parks 04:22
Yeah, I just did a maybe I can follow up and in some capacity with kind of a webinar I just did with an outsourced CFO group where we talked about exactly that debt versus equity and versus is a little bit of a misnomer. It can be debt and equity, and oftentimes should be debt and equity, but it’s really, you know, what are you trying to do? How are you kind of fashioning this company? How you capitalize it is just a it’s a tool that enables you to hopefully do some things that help you ultimately grow this company. And you know, if you’re if you’re taking a huge swing for a huge market, and you think you’re trying to be a massive company, that’s what venture capital is meant to be all about, historically speaking. And maybe it’s gotten away from that in certain regards. And maybe there’s way too many venture funded businesses that that shouldn’t be. We can get into that if we want to, but that’s what that’s meant to do. And so or there’s more moderated ways to go about growth, which could include debt, could include, you know, raising other forms of equity, Angel what have you that that aren’t necessarily putting you on that path of massive growth and massive outcomes. And so that’s what we’re trying to do, is understand where a company is, what it’s done historically on the capital side, which is meaningful, and then what it’s thinking it’s trying to do in its near term, near to midterm, next two to five years, growth and investment plan, and how we may be able to slot into that. So I would say the job of a founder and operators and execs are to try to understand what their options are, which is easier said than done. And so part of our job, in turn, is to try to educate the market on what those options are.
Matt Wolach 05:55
Yeah, I think that’s great, because this is stuff that a lot of we founders, we are totally clueless on and it’s really difficult to try and understand and piece it all together, because everybody says, Hey, we can help. We can help, we can help. And it’s really hard to kind of discern where that help should come and in what shape and what form, and when that matters. So when is the right time? If you’re early stage, when should you take something like this on?
Brian Parks 06:19
Yeah, exactly. I would say, not too early, you know. So for us, we’re very, I’d say revenue focused in our lending. So there’s kind of pure play venture debt, which has been around since probably the 80s. It’s maybe morphed over time. There’s banks that do it, there’s, you know, credit funds that do it in a non bank format. So that moniker of venture debt gets thrown onto almost all kinds of lending that are done to tech companies. But it’s a bit of a misnomer. Venture debt is really for venture backed companies that have raised a fresh round that can tack on a bit of debt to effectively extend runway. So an example, you may have raised a ten million series A. Venture debt provider may provide you roughly a third of that, 3 million, and you say, Okay, great. The 10 million is meant to last me 18 months. Here’s another three. That’s going to give me another six months to give you, give you some buffer in terms of runway, but it’s really only available if you’ve recently raised that true venture round, which is important to know. Folks like us say, Okay, we care about how you’re capitalized. From an equity standpoint, it’s not the end all be all, but it’s a meaningful thing, and we may as well understand but we’re really lending against the fundamentals of the business, and we don’t want to do that too early, because debt has to be repaid. So for us, kind of the earliest we would go is $2 million in revenue. So we say two to 15 million. If we look at our portfolio right now, it probably centralizes around five to $7 million top line B2B software companies that we’re lending two to $3 million in and so we’ll kind of play, from a check size standpoint, as low as one up to seven, lending something up to, say, 50% of their annual revenue. But if you don’t have enough revenue, that’s going to generate some some cash, and by the way, oftentimes you’re still burning cash. It’s just, frankly, way too risky to take on debt that has to be repaid. So you know that that’s a consideration. I think. You know one more thing caveat there is, there are venture debt lenders that will lend money to companies that are pre revenue or have very minimal revenue, again, because they’re looking at the fresh cash that has just come onto the balance sheet and saying, all right, they’ve got good sponsorship from their equity investors. They’ve got time from their money plus our money, to start getting into revenue or start hitting the milestones that are then going to lead to them raising that next round of financing. We try not to look at it that way, because really, we don’t want to back anyone into a corner. We want them to have optionality in terms of their future outcomes. So we’re not saying here’s some money. You better raise that next equity round in 12 to 18 months, or if this doesn’t work for us.
Matt Wolach 08:43
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I would agree with that. Let me ask you. So when you’re talking with somebody who says, Hey, we’re looking for some help, can you help us out? Brian, what are you looking for? What tells you that this is a company that you’re, you’re happy backing,
Brian Parks 09:00
yeah, it’s a it’s alignment at the end of the day. So I’ll kind of get into it. I mean, for us, I truly think it’s kind of 30% science, 70% art. You know, the science is pretty straightforward. It’s the fundamentals of the company. So I mentioned, you know, if you’re below $2 million in revenue, we’re probably not a fit for you. We’re not gonna, we’re just not gonna pursue that. If you’re at $5 million in revenue, you’re a B2B software company. We don’t do anything B2C. We don’t do anything that doesn’t have a core software component. It doesn’t have to be per place subscription. SaaS, it could be. We’ve worked with B2B marketplaces. We’ve worked with volume, you know, usage driven, transactionally oriented revenue. We’ve even worked with tech enabled services businesses, so different ways of monetizing software. But do you have, do you have a software product, however you monetize and sell it? Do you have some revenue scale that fits within our parameters? And then it’s looking at all right? How are you growing? What’s the composition of your revenue? How many customers do you have? Are you selling enterprise? Are you selling SMB? Is there a mix? How are you going to market? We want to learn about the revenue to a pretty large degree, because ultimately, Matt, that’s kind of our collateral, so to speak. Yeah, there’s no real estate, there’s no equipment, there’s nothing like, what are we really lending against? We’re lending against the quality of that revenue and how it’s going to perform and how it’s hopefully going to grow. And then we’re also going to look at, you know, kind of the operating efficiency of the business. So somewhat traditional, standardized SaaS metrics, you know, LTV, we don’t really put too much into LTV, honestly. CAC, what’s, how’s the Sales Machine going? If you put in $1 what’s going to spit out, right?
Matt Wolach 10:27
Like an LTV to CAC.
Brian Parks 10:28
Yeah, kind of, but again, LTV we’re a little bit skeptical of and I think a lot of investors are, because sometimes there’s not enough data to know, and someone makes an assumption, oh, here’s my churn rate. I’m going to divide this by divide this by that, and I keep customers for 50 months. It’s like, do you really have been in market for 50 months? How could you possibly know that? We are going to look at churn, we are going to look at retention, and we are going to look at CAC payback. Yeah, absolutely. You know, to the extent there’s multiple go to market channels, we’re going to try to understand each of those. Oftentimes, companies we’re working with may not have multiple and they may be taking our capital to launch another channel right? Whatever that may be. It could be hiring AES and SDRs. It could be trying to get channel driven sales. We don’t really tend to fund many models that require high kind of digital spend. It’s just not something we know that well, and it’s not a customer acquisition method that we’re all that comfortable with. Can be very expensive and so and you better have a very performant funnel if you’re doing that, you know, if you’re just filling the top of the leaky funnel, that becomes very expensive and burns through a lot of cash. So we’re going to look at the fundamentals holistically and try to give our view we have, you know, models and stuff we’ve developed over time that help us kind of get a pretty quick view on that, and then we’re going to look qualitative like, who are we interacting with here? Who’s running this company? How long have they been doing it? How committed are they? How widely know their space more the qualitative factors that equity investors care about as well. So you can’t just run it all through an algorithm and spit out some money, at least. That’s not our way of doing it. You’ve got to it is relationship oriented and trying to understand what’s going on here, who’s running this company, what markets do they serve? What’s the product, and where are they trying to take it? And again, can we align with where they’re trying to take it? How much capital do we think it’s going to take? Where is it getting them, right? Are we going from 5 million to 8 million of ARR. Do we think, once we get there, that we want to raise a minority growth round from private equity firm? Do we think there’s strategics out there? I’m speaking as the operator, but also how we care about it? Do we think there’s strategics that want to buy us? Do we just want to buy ourselves some time to get growth back up, because maybe it’s degraded, given macro events, and then raise another venture round, and that’s where we any of those can be fine. They have to be feasible and reasonable. And we’re not trying to back anyone into any one of them, right?
Matt Wolach 12:52
Yeah, for sure. So, I mean, let me, let me ask you this it does, is partnership, like to for some I know with you know, a lot of types of investment, whether it’s even an angel, but really, like a VC, you’re looking for a partner who’s who can help you out and open some doors. Does that happen with you guys as well on the debt side?
Brian Parks 13:12
it does. It varies. I mean, so what we say is, we’re in your boat. We’re not on your cap table. So we’re not an equity investor. We’re not taking any of the equity in the company, but we want to be rowing along, is what we say. And so it’s, I think it’s important distinction to understand that, you know, if you’re an equity investor with a portfolio, or if you’re a lender like Bigfoot with a portfolio, you may have 20 companies. If you’re a VC, I’m not gonna I’ve never been a VC. We know a bunch of VCs. They’re great, but ultimately, you know, it’s a power law game, so follow on capital. You know, it’s a top decile game, so two out of 20 may really work. It may really work and drive the returns for that fund and make the GPS a lot of money. What about the other 18? Are they going to get as much attention? Are they going to get as much follow on capital? They may or may not. For us, everyone has to work like we almost can’t lose money like as a lender. So we have to care about all of the companies in our portfolio and stay on top of them. Now, the degree of support that they want from us varies. You know, if you’re a bootstrapped company that doesn’t have a formal board or doesn’t have, you know, a lot of VC support or what have you, you may need more support from us than someone who’s got, hey, you’ve got, like, you know, talked with a company yesterday. You got six VCs in the mix. Many of them have been in there for a number of years. It’s like, all right, you’re probably pretty good on that support front, just very different situations. And so for us, we say, we generally say, Hey, we’re here to help out. Typically, we’re the most helpful kind of in the thin ops seat within a company. So helping with capital formation. Subsequent to us, we know a bunch of VCs, PES bank and non bank lenders. You know, we can activate our network. We can help with that planning. We can help with the projections. We don’t help with hiring. You know, we can opine on product. We can kind of opine on sales, but we kind of try to stay in our lane and not over promise.
Brian Parks 13:12
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You know, earlier you talked about one of the things you look at, or a few of the things you look at are the go to market. What’s the process? What’s this? That’s music to my ears, being a coach around, getting people put process in place. But that is definitely something that a financing partner looks at, right? Is, you know, do you have a real good way to generate leads consistently, and is that going to continue? And do you know that you’re going to close them? Do you have that Sales Machine in place so that you know that leads that come in or are going to actually turn into customers? That’s a big deal, right? Like, obviously, I’m really promoting myself here, because that’s what I do, is help people with that. But that is important, like investors and partners look for that when they’re making a decision on it, right?
Brian Parks 15:45
100% Yeah. I mean, we love it when folks such as yourselves are are in the mix, right? I mean, it’s a very hard thing to do to drive growth, right, as you’re well aware. And it takes a lot of experimentation. It takes, you know, burning some cash that doesn’t deliver ROI. I mean, you’re searching, right? And so oftentimes, you know, when we come into companies, they have some semblance of product market fit, but they may be searching and maybe looking to expand that, right? Or what has worked at some scale, maybe may continue to work up to at this scale, but will it work up to that scale? And if it stops working, you got to figure out other things that work. So, yeah, absolutely. And we’re going to look to both historical data, and we want to see a plan that’s going to rely upon the historical data to model something that’s reasonable, right? So it gets pretty granular, and our view on it gets pretty granular,
Matt Wolach 16:34
I can imagine for sure. So what are some of the mistakes that companies are making? If you’re an early stage founder, you’re like, oh, I need to get money. What are the things that they’re probably doing that we shouldn’t be doing?
Brian Parks 16:47
Yeah, I’ve written about this as well. I mean, because I have to raise money as well, raising money for 15 years at this point, for various endeavors. So I think it’s, you know, it’s paramount that you take it very seriously. So it’s, you know, it’s you know, it’s a sales process at the end of the day, so you have to be very organized, very diligent, very just on top of how you go about approaching it. And so that takes market research. Right earlier we were talking about equity versus debt. So, I mean, it’s even understanding what type of capital am I seeking, what level of capital am I seeking? How am I going to use it? Who are the types of capital providers, equity or debt that play in my space and sector, at what check sizes? There’s a whole research aspect of it. There’s building a list. And then there’s, you know, going hardcore against that effort. And I think, you know, I’ve never, don’t be afraid. Try to get warm, of course, try to activate your network. Get, you know, get warm in droves. But you can also go go cold too. But if you’re gonna go cold, come with something strong, you know. And so, you know, for me, again, I’ve most recently with Bigfoot. We just did a capital formation. I basically spent all 2023 raising capital. Got it done at the end of February. So we’ve got a fresh pool of capital looking to put in some great software companies. It was a lot of work, man, like, that’s all I can tell you. So you gotta get a lot of no’s. You’ve got to get energy from the no’s. I mean, and you just kind of run things down. So do it in a CRM, doing a spreadsheet, whatever. Be very organized, but you got to try to just get some energy of having a list of 200 people, understanding that 195 of them are going to be no literally, have a spreadsheet where you conditional format a status column to green, yellow or red. You don’t want yellows. You want green or red. Hopefully you get some greens. You don’t want all reds, but yellow just means it’s sitting there in the ether like you gotta, you gotta close. So I would just say that it’s really about running a process. And I wrote an ebook about this a while ago that if I can find it and send it to you, subsequently you can share it. And then it’s also like, I mean, it’s a very it’s a full time job. It’s very distracting. So you really gotta step back and say, Why am I doing this right? Am I really in a position to raise capital right now? Do I have the fundamentals, or am I just gonna go to market? And you know, that’s important to know. Are you really in a position to go do it right now, and why are you doing it? Or should you really just be focusing and being as scrappy as you can to to get traction in the company?
Matt Wolach 19:20
I think that’s good. Because sometimes people think, like, Oh, I think this is the next step. I just need to do this. But you’re right? Like, absolutely, knowing that this is the right thing right now is critical. And my guess is talking with someone like you would be impactful so that you can help them determine, yes, it’s the right time or No, you need to wait until this or that. Would that be right? Are you able to help people?
Brian Parks 19:40
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we have conversations like that all the time, right? And again, just, I’ve been through it for a number of years, as have many people. So there’s there’s scar tissue, there’s some learnings or failures or some success, there’s all of it. And you know, if you haven’t been through it, it’s just a lot, right? You don’t know what you don’t know. And so I think coming. Back to why you would raise capital is very important, and why now it’s like almost, if you have a pitch deck and you’re pitching an investor, there’s always a why now slide. Why? Why Now should I, as an investor, invest in your company? There’s an inverse of that, of why now, am I even raising money? Is it because to remove constraints, because there’s massive opportunity? Am I feeling competitive pressure, and I need to leapfrog someone who’s maybe gonna have more money than me? Okay, just having more money, are you really gonna leapfrog them? Not necessarily. So show me how having capital enables you to do that, right? So it’s really thinking through it again. I’ll use the word granularly, like you just really have to have thought through it all.
Matt Wolach 20:35
Yeah, no doubt. Well, this is cool, Brian. I’m really grateful that you came on and shared all of this. How can our audience learn more about you and what you guys are doing at Bigfoot Capital?
Brian Parks 20:46
Yeah, we put out a newsletter on substack. Bigfootcapital.substack.com, so probably the next thing that will come out on that is a capital provider survey. So we’ve got about 55 VCs, private equity, non Bank and Bank lenders. This is our third annual gaging their sentiment on the market and their activity. So what have you done, kind of the last 12 months? What do you think the next 12 months? It’s pretty informative. So can find that at our at our newsletter, find me on LinkedIn, Brian Parks, comma CFA, and our website, bigfootcap.com,
Matt Wolach 21:19
okay, awesome. We’ll put all that into the show notes, so if you’re listening or watching and go grab that there. But Brian, this has been fantastic. Thanks for coming on the show. Yeah. Thanks
Brian Parks 21:27
Yeah. Thanks a lot, Matt. Appreciate it
Matt Wolach 21:29
Absolutely. Thank you out there for watching and listening as well. Once again, make sure you’re subscribed to the show so you do not miss any other amazing people coming in and sharing their expertise and experience like Brian just did. Hit that subscribe button now and then. We will see you next time. Take care. Bye, bye. You.
