EPISODE SUMMARY
In today’s rapidly evolving software sales environment, mastering the art of sales is more crucial than ever. This week on “Scale Your SaaS,” host Matt Wolach and guest Richard Harris, founder of The Harris Consulting Group and a renowned sales influencer, discuss innovative approaches to selling that can significantly enhance your software sales strategy. Learn how to make your sales process not only effective but also profoundly impactful here.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 322, “The Seller’s Journey – with Richard Harris”
Guest: Richard Harris, Founder at The Harris Consulting Group
Host: Matt Wolach, a B2B SaaS Sales Coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Sponsored by: Leadfeeder
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
1. Embracing the Sellers’ Journey
Richard emphasizes the importance of focusing on the sellers’ journey rather than just the buyers’ journey. He challenges the common notion that buyers are significantly through the decision-making process before they engage with sales, advocating for a more seller-centric approach to understand and guide the sales experience.
2. Tactics Over Features
Highlight the pain points your product solves instead of just its features. Richard advises focusing on how your product or service alleviates specific problems rather than overwhelming prospects with every feature.
3. Demos Shouldn’t Be Training Sessions
A crucial strategy discussed is the distinction between demos and training. Demos should focus on the benefits and results of the product, not on the operational details like data input methods.
4. The Importance of Mental and Emotional Preparation
Richard and I discuss how mental preparation and maintaining a positive mindset are essential for success in sales, akin to high-level athletes who continuously refine their skills.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
Changing the Sales Paradigm
Richard challenges the conventional sales paradigm by proposing a shift from a buyer-centric to a seller-centric journey. He argues that understanding the sales process from the seller’s perspective allows for a more tailored and impactful buyer experience.
Negotiating with Procurement
Richard discussed how to effectively negotiate with procurement. He offers strategic advice on engaging procurement teams, emphasizing the importance of understanding their mindset and preparing thoroughly for negotiations to ensure favorable outcomes.
TOP QUOTES
Richard Harris
[06:25] “I titled the book, ‘The Sellers Journey,’ because I don’t believe that there’s a buyer’s journey… There’s a buyer’s experience through the seller’s journey.”
[17:17] “Talk about the pain you solve, not what you do. Nobody cares what you do; they care what pains you solve.”
Matt Wolach
[17:43] “The truth is, tweaking and refining our approach can lead to perfection in how we handle sales processes.”
[25:46] “Even the best, the reason that they’re the best, is because they work the hardest to continue to improve to continue to be the best.”
LEARN MORE
To learn more about The Harris Consulting Group, visit: https://theharrisconsultinggroup.com/
You can also find Richard Harris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rharris415/
For more about how Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com.
Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free trial: https://www.leadfeeder.com/
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Check out the whole episode transcript here:
Matt Wolach 00:00
By the way, if this is your first time here with us, the goal of this show is to help you do exactly that. So you can Scale Your SaaS scale your software company. That way, we want to help you generate a whole bunch of great leads, understand how to close those leads really quickly and efficiently for a whole lot of money. And how can you put a process in place that scalable and repeatable so that you can have a team doing this for you? If you want any of those things, hit the subscribe button. That way, you’ll be notified about all of our episodes where we bring amazing innovators and leaders who can help you scale your SaaS and one of those amazing people I am delighted to put in front of you. I’ve got Richard Harris with me, Richard, how you doing?
Richard Harris 00:39
I’m good my man. How are you? Well, you are shot out of a cannon. So let’s enjoy it.
Matt Wolach 00:45
That’s exactly the case. I do enjoy this. Every week, I get to talk to amazing people. I’m super excited to our talk or a for our talk. So let me tell everybody who you are, Richard. So Richard, he’s the founder at The Harris Consulting Group. He is dedicated to sharing his wealth of knowledge with an audience that is eager to excel in sales. He’s also the author of the book, “The Sellers Journey”, definitely check it out. He promises to change the way sellers look at the process of selling. He’s a three times Salesforce sales influencer, and he’s co host of his own podcast, check it out. It’s called the Surf and Sales podcast awesome some stuff over there. So Richard, thanks so much for coming on the show.
Richard Harris 01:23
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Matt Wolach 01:25
Absolutely. So tell me what have you been up to lately? And what’s coming up for you?
Richard Harris 01:31
The likenesses you know, sort of I hate pitching. So apologize to all the audience people. I wrote the book that came out in February sellers journey. So I’ve been doing a ton of podcasts like yours, just trying to get the word out to continue to help people start from sales podcast. Have some I a little bit like you, I do go to market strategies and sales training for people. And then the other big thing that’s really happening is November’s our actual surf and sales Summit, which we have down in November. So take about 15 or 16 people down there and learn how to surf. But if you don’t surf, that’s okay, I’m still learning and most been about a only about three or four hours a time on content. So we don’t do a ton on like, do some ton of time on content, but not the whole thing. It’s really about a microsystem of just getting to hang out with people you wouldn’t normally get to. So that’s the biggest thing that’s happening in the future. But it’s really closing deals like everybody else working with clients like everybody else. So you know.
Matt Wolach 02:34
beautiful stuff, beautiful stuff. How did you combine surf and sales, I mean, I just I get this vision in my head of somebody with a headset on while they’re catching a wave, which sounds cool.
Richard Harris 02:46
It’s the complete opposite of that. My partner and co founder on this Scott Lease, we were down there in Costa Rica, literally, with our families, and we’re walking off the beach one day, and he like turns to me, he’s like, how come? We always got to go to like Omaha for sales conference? Like no offense to anybody in Omaha. And I’m like, like, What do you mean? It’s like, well, what can we do something down here? And I’m like, Okay, let’s do it. And Scott’s the kind of guy who’s like, when you challenge him, he just does it. He figures out a way. And so that was in 2017. And we’ve been doing it ever since. So it just sort of came as a fluke, right couple of knuckleheads who just were like, Let’s see if we can combine business, and a fun passion and go do that. And then the podcast came after that, and it just sort of became its own world.
Matt Wolach 03:31
That’s so cool. I love that. And I’m sure it’s very, very popular. And I love how you just embody the whole thing. But you got the hat, you got the mug for everybody’s listening. He’s totally all in here. I want to ask you though, the sellers journey. This book, I kind of looked at looked at it real quick. I haven’t had a chance to read it yet. But tell me what what told you I need to write this I need to share this information.
Richard Harris 03:50
Well how dare you not read it? (laughing) So don’t you know how important I think I am. (laughing) I wrote this, I wrote this book. Because I think a lot of people in our space, you know, we’re always trying to identify and brand ourselves in different ways. And so this is another way to do that. You know, so I’m happy to say that selfishly, I don’t care. And then I wanted to bring a different approach to what everything else is out there. Like I talk a lot about mindset, I talk about being proud that you’re in sales, like we, our job and our role affects more people’s ability to change their lives than any other job in the world. If you’re in leadership, right? We affect more lives than heart surgery and a brain surgeon. We and the residual effect of that is just crazy. So, you know, the the ripple effect, so to speak. So that was part of it. I also want to write a book that was about bringing the humanity back into sales. And how do we just teach people to have a conversation because We’re forgetting how to have conversations. Right Are you know, I’ve got two teenage kids, I can assure you, we worked very hard to teach them to have conversations. It’s not as easy as it as it may have once been, although I don’t know and have to ask my mom, how easy it was to teach me. But so I combined a lot of the stuff around mindset. And then I want to talk about different tactics that people aren’t aware of that they could use. Things about finding skeptics before you find decision makers, how to negotiate with procurement, something that’s never ever really taught to us to how to understand that mindset of a procurement person. And the discovery you need to go through with them before you just try to hash out pricing. So it was a lot of it was it was stuff, we all run into some stuff we’ve probably done, but maybe it wasn’t quite as taught at that formatted processed levels. So. So that’s what made me want to write the book.
Matt Wolach 05:59
Yeah, I would definitely say I, you know, I’m obviously tightly connected in with the sales community, not many people are talking about those things. And so I’m glad you did that. Because it’s super important stuff. And I know one of the things you talk about is that the sales process revolves around the seller should be revolving around the seller rather than the buyer. And it can kind of change how, you know if you’re in sales, how that changes your approach to your interactions. Can you explain a little bit more about that?
Richard Harris 06:25
Yeah. So I titled the book, the sellers journey, because I don’t believe that there’s a buyers journey. And I know that’s a little shocking and controversial. Oh, my gosh. What I do believe is that there’s a buyers experience through the sellers journey. There’s a reason someone’s talking to you. And this whole myth about someone’s 80% or 60%, down the path of making a decision before they talk to a salesperson. Well, one that only applies to an inbound lead. So and then, I’ve never actually seen the data that supports that theory. Other than the quote that HubSpot came up with Oh, sure, maybe they’re 30% of the way down, I doubt unless you if you have to do a demo. Right for your prospect. There’s no way they’re more than 50% of the way down the journey. Not possible, just not possible. So it’s bullshit. So hope I can say that on your podcast. But yeah, that that being said, there’s a buyer’s experience that walks through a journey that sales and marketing creates the sales and marketing and sometimes it’s more marketing than sales, creates this journey. It’s a seller’s journey, right, bad if you want to go Google something because you want to go by sales training. Well, first of all, you had an experience first, that told you you needed to go research it, you then Googled it, then it’s up to marketing and sales, usually marketing at that point, to make sure you’ve got the right SEO stuff. And to send you down this rabbit hole, this seller’s journey. And whatever experience you have to that is what dictates how you’re going to operate as a prospect as a customer, or prospect. Right. We’ve all by the way, how many apps do we all have on our phone that we never use? Some of it is some of it is we got bored with the game. So we’re not you know, we’re not playing that anymore. Other times just like this app sucks. I’m out of here. Well, that’s not because you were on a buyer’s journey. It’s because you had a bad experience. And the people who built the app created a terrible journey for you to go through. Sorry for the rant. That’s, that’s where it comes from?
Matt Wolach 08:44
No, I like it. I’m glad you’re ranting about this. I think it’s important because I don’t think we think about it enough. I don’t think we put enough thought process into the experience. You’re right. And you’re I love what you’re saying, because I have heard that stat. But I I’ve always kind of wondered if it’s true. And I’ve never really dove in and questioned it 80% of the way through.
Richard Harris 09:07
Let me yeah, let me ask you a question. Because you do this as much as I do, right? Like you talked to founders, you helped build processes and you know, understanding something that’s scalable. Have you ever watched them buy a tool? Like if you’ve recommended a certain tool or service, whether it’s a marketing tool or a sales tool or enablement tool? How far do you think they were really down the buyers journey? Before they talked to a salesperson?
Matt Wolach 09:37
Well, I mean, especially if it’s a referral, if you say, hey, go check this out, go talk to these guys or go talk to this guy about this, then they might be 10% of the way down, but when they talk to him, they look at the website. Okay, I’ll talk to him.
Richard Harris 09:48
Yep, that’s it. Yeah. Yeah, that is not now. The nuance will be and I’ll try to you know, I always try to look at both sides, right, because I always we always bring this unintended bias. So I’ll acknowledge that there could be a difference between where they are in terms of making the decision. So mentally, like if you refer someone, they may be mentally past 50%. And they’re just checking off to make sure it’s okay. I might believe that I might fall into that. With one exception. There’s no data to tell us that. There’s no data, you know. And so anyway, so we can we can we can put a pin in that one, but you know.
Matt Wolach 10:36
no, I think it’s super interesting. I’m glad you’re talking about it. What I want to ask is okay, you and I both agree. And we have done more sales than most people listening, I would guess, you and I both agree that that’s not quite the case, probably, far less.
Richard Harris 10:55
And we and let’s be fair, I’m a little older than you. So I probably go twice as much as you. (laughing)
Matt Wolach 11:02
Nonetheless, we’ve seen it, we feel it. So even though we don’t have the data to back it. Anecdotally, we both believe this to be the case that, you know, you you’re getting them much, much sooner than 80%. And even much sooner than 50%. So what can sellers do? If this is the case, and we are hugely impactful within this process for the buyer? How can we make sure that we are employing the right tactics? And how can a leader make sure that their team is doing the right things?
Richard Harris 11:32
For me? When you’re building this journey, right? What I often want people to do is to talk about the pain you solve, not what you do. Nobody cares what you do. They care what pains you solve. And the simplest example would be me. Which is, yes, I’m a sales trainer. Yes, I’ve trained zoom, and you know, Google and Salesforce and all these companies, a ton of other startups. Nobody cares. They really don’t. But when people say what do you do? Well, I teach reps, how to earn the right to ask questions, which questions to ask. And when there’s not a leader, C level, revenue level, VP level, even a marketing person who doesn’t understand what that means, teaching reps, how to earn the right to ask questions in which questions to ask. And when, because they can all visualize somewhere on their team, not doing that well. Not doing it as well as they want. Not doing good discovery, not understanding how to do good discovery. Maybe that’s where the challenge is. So talk about the pain you saw. paint pictures of pain, ask questions around the pains you solve, like, you talk, you and I talked earlier, you’re like, Well, I would go to market strategist and I work with early stage founders. I’m like, Okay, but what pain does that solve? And now you can talk about use cases. And that’s what I mean, talk about the use cases you solve for, you know, it’s if you go to any conference, right, except for circle sales, because we don’t do booths. But if they’ve got booths up, it’s all about how pretty does that booth look? Nowhere does it say in big letters, solving blank? You know, getting your Sunday night’s back sales leaders like that. That’s the first step is making sure you understand your messaging in a way that resonates with your prospects and buyers based on their headspace. How do they think about the problem? Because they cherish it, don’t think about, you know, boy, I hope I can find a world leader in blank. You know, so sorry, another rant. That’s what I want to keep around.
Matt Wolach 13:51
You’re speaking to my heart, especially talking about how they don’t care about you. There’s something I tell my clients all the time, they don’t care about you. They don’t care about what you’re trying to do. In fact, anytime any of my clients says something in an email, like something like, Hey, I would like to set up a call. Well, of course, they don’t care what you would like to do, right? Figure out what’s in their best interests, figure out what’s important for them, and help get them to that realization that you can help them get there.
Richard Harris 14:21
so since you have a lot of early stage founders and stuff can we talk about a demo for a second? just like this is a tips and tactics guy. So I want to always make sure people walk out of here with with something juicy. And, and again, particularly and let me ask you this question. Are a lot like me, or a lot of the early stage people you’re working with the tech side like they are this the Stanford graduate or they’re all right, they’re all these super brilliant smart programmers and developers, you know, which look I couldn’t do that. So I have no anybody.
Matt Wolach 14:58
Yeah, me any of them are many of them are connected. And
Richard Harris 15:02
nor do I have the patience. Let’s be honest, like, you and I have the mind of a goldfish. I’ll speak for me i don’t i don’t know you well enough. Yeah, but I’m with you. What I what I encourage people to do when you when you do demos, one, stop doing death by mouse click, if your product or service falls a pain, and it requires your prospect or customer to upload data, oh, we got to get all this data in there. Nobody gives a shit. Do not waste your time and a demo to show them how you upload the data. Nobody’s coming to a demo that says, Hey, show me how you upload the data before I actually, you know, before you show me the page yourself, nobody cares. They’ll ask for that. But get to the good stuff. And I say this with love and intent to all these founders. We know it’s a beautiful baby, you’ve worked really hard, a lot of long hours, you’ve taken no paycheck and a long time. And so you want to show off all this amazing stuff that you’ve done. And getting data into the system. Just this one example, is not easy, right? Like maybe you found a way that’s better than just upload an Excel file or upload, you know, a CVS or something like that. That’s fantastic. Nobody cares. No buddy cares. Nobody cares what you do. They care about the pain you solve. So now talk about the pain. Right? They’ll figure out how to upload the data if they want the tool. Nobody’s I mean, Matt, do you know anybody who’s like, you know what? I’m buying this tool? Because it’s really easy to upload data, that that’s the primary reason they’re doing. Usually not me, maybe an accountant, maybe, maybe, but I don’t know, like, you know, maybe if it’s, if it’s, if the pain you solve is we’re bringing in disparate systems, and you’ve got the data in six different places. Well, in that instance, how you get the data in is the demo. That’s a very different system than like, if you’re selling to a sales leader, where it’s going to help with cold calling or prospecting
Matt Wolach 17:13
that’s catering to their needs. Right?
Richard Harris 17:17
Right so we’re trying to live in their mindset, right? That’s what we’re getting to. So anyway, so that’s, again, another little rant. But I always want to give people something tactical they can either walk away with, and go, Oh, that’s good. Or go Richards full of shit. Which then just confirms your own belief system, which is also a good thing, right? I don’t matter. I don’t know all of it. We have enough experience to be dangerous enough experience to be beyond stupid. But we still no all of it
Matt Wolach 17:43
the truth. But I do agree with you. You’re absolutely right. And when you talk about people who have that mouse click capability, and they’re just going nuts on the on the product. That’s one of my most popular YouTube videos is something that I call demos are not training. And there’s the time for training, demos are not training, don’t train them on how to use the product, train them on what it can do for them and what their results will be.
Richard Harris 18:09
you buy a new car and you go test drive a new car, you are not trying to figure out on that test drive, how to connect your Bluetooth. You are not you just want to know that Apple CarPlay is there or google play whatever they have. You want to know what’s there. But you’re not trying to connect your phone at that moment. Don’t spend time there.
Matt Wolach 18:29
Yeah, love it. Love it. Okay, so I know that we’re kind of run short. But I want to ask you some questions about kind of leadership. So how can we make sure that leaders are helping their teams level up and they’re improving? They’re consistently getting better? Yeah.
Richard Harris 18:44
So this is a really good question. If people you might find this interesting, Matt, I’ll, I could send it to anybody. But bad I’ll send it to you is we put out a state of mental health and sales report for 2024. And I’ve done it the last three years. And one of the questions we ask is to salespeople at peak performance. What was your leadership doing? Not what do you wish your leader was doing? Not a whiny question. We wanted to know what’s happening in the best moments. And we came up with about 13 things. The first thing is well, number three on the list, which I think is the most interesting one, for leaders is to be vulnerable. When a leader is vulnerable, then that means that your sales team feels supported because they want to be supported. They want to feel relevant and they want to be heard. Now, there’s a challenge around this vulnerability. I’m a big fan of mental health. I talked about my own mental health in in the non work world and how it affected my work world. I’m not asking people to talk about their therapy if they don’t want to. I got it when the situation is right It’s okay to support your rep by sharing a story. Now, that doesn’t mean you walk into your team meeting, go, Hey, everybody, I want to tell you all about my worst experience with the there. But you kind of have to bide your time. You have to wait for that rep to ask for support in some cases. Now, again, I’ll speak on the other side. You know, if someone’s like, hey, you know, I’m going into, you know, here’s an example, Hey, I’m going into a meeting with a procurement team. What advice do you have? Okay, well, you can start to tell people what to do. Or you could say, Matt, what do you want to know? I’ve got some really interesting experiences, good and bad that I can share with you. I can. And because of that, I’m going to give you the advice, which would you like to hear? Because I don’t want to waste your time with a war story. So now, now, Matt is my customer. I’m trying to live in Matt’s headspace. Right. So that’s one way to do it. You could, in a vulnerable moment, as part of training, say, Hey, everybody, here’s the tactic, we’re going to use go talk to procurement. And by the way, push back on me team if you think I’m wrong, because this is based on my experience, and what I’ve learned, and now you’re telling your team that, hey, I’m here to lead and support you. But it doesn’t mean I get it always. I always get it. Right. Right, like mad, I think you probably are like me, you can walk into an organization. And you can say, based on my experience, here’s what I would recommend, however, Mr. or Mrs. Founder, push back on me, because maybe there’s something I don’t know about your customer, or your prospect push back on me, because maybe there’s something I don’t know about how your service does something. And it becomes a vulnerable conversation of, let’s make sure this works. So you can’t just walk in and tell war stories, but you can still tell them in the right moment. So being vulnerable, another great, great way for leaders to be vulnerable. When was the last time you heard a sales, sales leader, VP of sales, or even a founder, get on a call, sales call recorded and send it to the team and say, Hey, everybody, what could I have done better? Right, like Matt and I are on sales calls, we get off the phone, and I guarantee you we’re like, oh, I missed that. Oh, I could have said this there. Right. And again, we’re paid. And we know because you know, as you said, we’ve got a lot of experience that we get more of it right? In most cases, but every now and then is like, Oh, I forgot to ask them their sales cycle. I forgot to ask them, what the board is expecting from them, you know, because they just got their funding, right? Like the and then over time, we remember to ask those questions. But we still forget stuff. I mean, I assume you did. What was the last time you forgot to go? Oh, I should ask that question.
Matt Wolach 22:51
All the time I tell my clients, I’ve never given a perfect demo. And if something was slightly off, or my intonation missed on one particular part or whatever, now, but I equate it to say a Broadway actor, okay, they do the same thing all day, every day, seven days a week. And every, I’m sure every show, they’re gonna come offstage and say, Oh, I kind of delivered that a little weird. Or I kind of skipped here, I pause too much or too short here. And nobody will notice in the audience, right? With you. And I people would see it and they probably wouldn’t have any idea. But in our heads, we’d say, oh, I need to tweak this or change this or adjust this. And I think that’s where people need to get to his to that point where they’ve, they’ve got the understanding of exactly what to do how to do it. And they’re just trying to find those last little tweaks to really refine aim for perfect. Yeah.
Richard Harris 23:42
Do you know, do you know the story about the Blue Angels and what they do after every performance? So for people that don’t know, they’re, there’s, they’re the Jets, they’re Navy pilots, and they fly amazing, beautiful patterns, and they’re within like, 18 inches of each other. It’s crazy. It’s crazy. They, after every session, they go into a room and before they will go into the room, they rip off their ranking information on the you know, whatever their stripes are, what how are they you know, anything on the collar that indicates, you know, I’m a major, I’m a this some of that, I mean that. And then they sit down and they critique every performance. These guys fly in practice every time. Right? Like, this is what they do. And they go in and they strip themselves of ranking, that they can have a conversation, right? And it’s the same thing. Like, I’m really big. I don’t know why I’m, you know, lean way more liberal than conservative, but I’ve been reading all these Navy SEAL books, like I’ve just sort of falling into this fictional place of read like all these series, and it’s the same thing you hear them talking about, you know, just practice and practice. Certain refinement and refinement because they can’t just storm a building. In most cases, like there’s usually something happening and I think Jocko Willick probably talks about it in his stuff, too. I don’t know if you’ve read his books, but his stuffs amazing. And so does. Who’s the guy? The runner who went through buds three times? Do you know what I’m talking about? He’s a great storyteller camera. Well, David Goggins. Yeah. Like, he talks about going through buds and how he ran a marathon on a broken leg. And like, just, you know,
Matt Wolach 25:38
That guy will make you run through a wall, that’s for sure.
Richard Harris 25:41
For sure, he’s crazy. He’s amazing. He’s great. So anyway, I’ll shut up. Now, again, another rant. And you’re supposed to know.
Matt Wolach 25:46
I love it. I mean, the Blue Angel thing, to me, it really is important, because even the best, the reason that they’re the best, first of all, and I’m a big sports guy, is because they work the hardest to continue to improve to continue to be the best. And you definitely can see a difference. I see it with myself, I see it with my clients on the ones that are actually refining and working hard. They’re the ones who are performing the best. And, and that’s really what it is. So
Richard Harris 26:10
like, I give you two more anecdotes into like sports, please. Yeah. So one is the best athletes, Venus, Serena, Brady, whether you like them or not, right doesn’t matter. They are masters of the fundamentals. And they never stop the fundamentals. Right, just like us, we master the cold call. Because we get our script down, we get our cadence down like an actor. But we don’t get to practice the procurement thing as much. We don’t get to practice negotiating as much. And so it’s all the other stuff that you do. And then I saw quote, this week, I can’t remember, I think my wife sent it to me, was one of our one of our kids loves sports. But he said, there’s a difference between the top five people in it at a position in sports, and the next 20. And the top, he says the thing that he notices, and I don’t know, there’s a study, he said the thing he notices is their ability to love the sport in a different way. Sure, if someone strikes out, they’re bummed, right? Sure someone goes in a slump, they’re bummed. But they still love the sport. And they can try to get it out of their mind. They can, they can, okay, I struck out and they give themselves 90 seconds to worry about it. Right. And in that moment, the end, they can figure out how should have done this, I should have done that I should have swung it that pitch should have no they want to get out whatever it is, but their love and passion for the sport is what propels them at a different level. So and, you know, and the thing I tell people all the time, and then I’ll shut up I promise. Sales is one of the loneliest activities ever. Right? It just like sports, like like, I’m Barry guy, you know, big, big Steph Curry guy. You don’t see the hours that he’s in his gym dribbling 1000 times a day. That’s very lonely. He’s not hanging out with his buddies doing it. You don’t see the 1000s of three points he’s got that he’s shooting before you ever got there. Right? It’s a lonely place. And I think if you can accept that in your own headspace, and enjoy it and understand that emotionally, there’s a difference between being emotionally lonely and physically lonely. Emotionally lonely is different. Physically lonely, is me practicing but I’m not really lonely because I’m thinking about my game. And I’m focused on that. Not focused on why I wish someone was here with me.
Matt Wolach 28:53
Yeah, we are wrapping up here. But it’s really interesting stuff. And just getting my my gears turning here because I remember I don’t remember there was a basketball player. It’s been a while. But they said, hey, it’s kind of funny how the ones who are first in the gym and last out of the gym are the best players. Why is that? You know, they kind of were joking about how like Michael Jordan and all the best players. Yeah, the first ones in the gym, and they’re the last ones to leave. So they’re working the hardest as they were kind of joking about it. But it reminds me of Tiger Woods who said a younger golfer asked him hey, you know, what’s the secret? And he said, Get your get your club on a ball 1000 times a day. Whether you’re hitting the ball, whether you’re putting whether you’re chipping, hit the hit a ball 1000 times a day. Like that’s the secret.
Richard Harris 29:44
It’s not a hard secret. It’s the willpower to do it. Exactly. Basically what it means is, anybody could do it, which I do believe the difference is we just aren’t putting in the effort to do it.
Mat Wolach 29:58
No I get out there after about 40 or 50. I’m like, Okay, I’m bored. What do I do?
Richard Harris 30:04
Yeah, I’m tired. Oh, I’m tired.
Matt Wolach 30:10
Ok cool Richard this has been, this has been awesome. Love this. I’m sure we could talk for hours about this kind of stuff. How can our audience learn more about you and your book? The sellers journey?
Richard Harris 30:19
Yeah. So sellers journey. Amazon, of course, all the other places you get it online. In fact, this is um, the crazy motherfucker out there. Right? So 4155969149 4155969149, my cell phone number legit? Because it’s the number my kids ignore every time I call them since they’re teenagers. Here’s the deal. Text me ahead of time to say, Hey, I heard you on Matt’s show. I’d love to rap with you. I’ll talk to anybody. I’ll give advice. I’ll talk about it anytime. Anybody who texts me and says, Hey, Richard, I heard you a Matt’s show. Send me your book. I’ll send you one. How’s that?
Matt Wolach 30:58
Very cool. Well you heard it here, folks. I love that. Very cool. Richard, thank you so much for that. And we’ll make sure also, we put all your information into the show notes. So if you’re listening, go grab that. Go check Richard out. Grab the book. Definitely. Richard, this has been awesome. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
Richard Harris 31:15
Thanks for having me. Thanks for letting me keep you a few extra minutes. And thanks to your audience for sitting around and listening to my knuckleheaded myths about stuff and tell me if I got anything wrong, I want to know, I don’t want to give out bad advice.
Matt Wolach 31:30
Nothing was wrong. It was it was beautiful, and it wasn’t knucklehead. It was fantastic advice that people need to implement. So really appreciate it. Thank you so much, and everybody out there. Thank you for being here. Thanks for watching and listening. Hope to see you next time. Definitely subscribe so you do not miss out on other amazing advice like Richard just shared. And that’s it. We will see you next time. Take care
