EPISODE SUMMARY
In this episode of Scale Your SaaS, host and B2B SaaS Sales Coach Matt Wolach sits down with Ken Lazar, Chief Career Officer at Ability Professional Network to discuss his approach to recruiting top-tier sales professionals. If you’re looking to build a sales team that drives your SaaS business forward, take Ken’s advice to heart. Read this blog to learn more.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 325, “How to Build the Best Sales Team – with Ken Lazar”
Guest: Ken Lazar, Chief Career Officer at Ability Professional Network
Host: Matt Wolach, a B2B SaaS Sales Coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Sponsored by: Leadfeeder
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Build a Balanced Software Sales Team
When constructing a SaaS sales team, Ken advises against filling it entirely with “A” players. While top performers are valuable, a team needs a mix of personalities to foster collaboration. Moreover, the company itself must be attractive to “A” players by offering competitive compensation and benefits.
Compensation Structure: Keep It Simple and Fair
A clear, understandable compensation program is vital. It should align the software salesperson’s personal goals with the company’s objectives. Complicated or constantly changing compensation structures can demotivate salespeople and lead to turnover. As Ken puts it, “Don’t screw with the compensation program.”
Avoid Common Mistakes in Sales Hiring
One of the biggest pitfalls is a disjointed hiring process. Software companies should act quickly and maintain consistent communication with candidates. Delays can make candidates lose interest or question the company’s efficiency. Additionally, companies must sell themselves to candidates, especially in a competitive market.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
A Unique Journey: Ken’s Personal and Professional Blend
Ken Lazar recently made an unconventional move—he joined a classic rock band. Despite being a seasoned professional in the staffing industry, Ken decided to revisit his high school passion for playing bass guitar. Forming a band with local friends, Ken now performs in bars around Columbus, Ohio, bringing joy to audiences and himself alike. His advice? “If you want to do something crazy, go ahead and do it.”
The Genesis of Ability Professional Network
Ken has spent a significant portion of his career placing people in jobs. He worked for major staffing companies like Kelly Services and Manpower Group before a pivotal conversation with his wife led him to start his own business. Leveraging the social capital he built over the years, Ken and his son Matt founded Ability Professional Network. They focused on placing sales professionals, and their dedication has made them a “ten-year overnight success.”
Key Traits of Successful Software Sales Professionals
Ken emphasizes the unique challenges in recruiting SaaS sales professionals. Unlike hiring for technical roles, sales recruitment involves considering various factors like compensation structures and non-compete clauses. Here are some of Ken’s top insights for identifying strong sales performers:
- Robust LinkedIn Profile: A well-maintained LinkedIn profile indicates that a salesperson understands the importance of networking.
- Longevity in Previous Positions: Candidates who have stayed with their past employers for extended periods are often more reliable.
- In-Depth Interviewing: Ken asks detailed questions about how candidates build their sales funnel. A comprehensive understanding of this process is crucial.
- Command of Language and Rapport: Sales professionals must be articulate and able to build rapport quickly.
Conclusion: The Right Approach to Sales Recruitment
Ken’s insights highlight the importance of a structured, transparent approach to recruiting sales professionals. By focusing on key traits, maintaining a balanced team, and ensuring a fair compensation structure, companies can build a strong, effective sales force. Remember, the hiring process should reflect the company’s commitment to its team and its understanding of the software sales profession.
TOP QUOTES
Ken Lazar
[01:20] “When you build up social capital, and you’ve helped people along the way, they return the favor tenfold.”
[12:15] “Recruiting sales professionals is a unique process. It’s not like recruiting engineers or accountants.”
[19:06] “You can’t build your entire sales team with Mavericks. Otherwise, there will be no cooperation amongst the sales professionals on your team.”
Matt Wolach
[08:19]”If sales reps don’t have a good understanding of basics, then it’s rough.”
[19:39] “It’s amazing how other people have come to help. I remember when I started my companies, inevitably I’d have somebody I helped previously that would come help me.”
LEARN MORE
To learn more about Ability Professional, visit: https://www.abilityprofessional.com/
You can also find Ken Lazar on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kenlazar/
For more about how Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com.
Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free trial: https://www.leadfeeder.com/
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Check out the whole episode transcript here:
Matt Wolach 00:01
Hello and welcome to Scale Your SaaS. This is the podcast where we’re going to tell you how to scale your SaaS by generating a whole bunch of great leads, making sure you know how to close those leads. And of course, building a strong sales team so that they can do a lot of the work for you. If you want any of those things, definitely subscribe to the show. Now you do not want to miss where we bring in experts from around the software industry to show you exactly how to do all these things. And one of these experts is here with us today, and I am super excited about it. I’ve got Ken Lazar with me, Ken, how you doing?
Ken Lazar 00:29
I’m doing well, Matt, thanks for having me on the call.
Matt Wolach 00:33
Absolutely, really glad to have you here. And I’m looking forward to today’s call. Let me make sure everybody knows who you are Ken. So Ken is the Chief Career Officer at Ability Professional Network. And a building professional network delivers high performing sales and marketing professionals to their clients to help their candidates reach their career potential. And basically, if you need somebody on your team who’s going to help you grow, you turn to Ken and Ken takes care of that and make sure you get the right person. So Ken, thanks so much for being on the show. Great, it’s
Ken Lazar 01:01
Great, it’s good to be here. Hope I have something that will be valuable to your listeners and your viewers today.
Matt Wolach 01:07
I’m sure you will likewise though, I’m excited for today’s call. And I want to learn, you know, what have you been up to lately and what’s coming up for you guys?
Ken Lazar 01:16
Matt, I’ve done something totally irrational. I’m going to share this with your with your group. I recently joined a classic rock band. So I’ve been putting people to work for a long, long time. And a bunch of guys in the neighborhood. We’re all playing like the third quarter, fourth quarter of our games. And they asked me to come and play bass guitar. And I haven’t played bass guitar since I was in high school. So we put this rock band together and we’re playing locally around at different bars and grills in Columbus, Ohio, and I am having the time of my life. I’m getting paid to have fun. So it’s like it’s an amazing thing right now I recommend anybody at any point in time in their life, if they want to do something crazy like that, go ahead and do it. Because it is we are just having so much fun. We have all We packed the house all of our neighbors come all of our friends come. So right now. I’m in a good spot. Love what I’m doing on both the personal side of it and on the business side of it.
Matt Wolach 02:19
I love it. That’s fantastic. I’m so glad you’re doing that. For me. There’s nothing like a live band in a bar when you’re hanging out with your friends. It’s just so cool. What’s your favorite song that you play?
Ken Lazar 02:30
Believe it or not, the song that really gets the crowd going is ZZ Top Lagrange. And we play classic rock which is 1965 to 1975 and when we play that people just go crazy. So we got people to come up and dance you know we all got they got courtyard, according to the name of the group is courtyard. So got courtyard T shirts on. We just we take videos. It’s just a wonderful time. ZZ Top is good. We play Clapton play a couple of Clapton songs. You know, we play a CD Winwood from from I’m a man, and give me some lovin. So it’s all the songs that people know that, have they dance to that they, they sing to that they hear it, you know, transcends generations. So it’s really a lot of fun.
Matt Wolach 03:18
I love it. I love it. Well, it’s super exciting. I’m glad you shared that because I just really appreciate great live music. But let’s talk business for a little bit. So Ability Professional Network. How did how did this company come to be?
Ken Lazar 03:33
Well, Matt, I’ve been in putting people to work for a long time. For the better part of my career. I worked for two major international staffing companies. One was Kelly Services, the others Manpower Group, and also for a technical staffing company here locally. And I enjoy that process of putting people to work. So about 11 years ago, I came home, this is a this is interesting. Wives play an important part of our lives. I think, Matt, don’t they? So I came home from work one day, and I was working for a boutique, staffing company at that time a retain search company. And my wife says to me, “Ken, I don’t think you like your job anymore.” And I says, Well, How do you know? I could just tell him to come home, you know, like your job, which you really ought to do is really start your own company. Because you know, you’ve been doing this for such a long time. In Columbus, Ohio, we’ve been we had a job networking groups going since the great recession since 2006. So I built up some social capital locally. And so I said, Well, I said, Do you know what you’re in for? And she says, Yeah, let’s do it. So we started to build a professional network with my son Matt. And we never looked back. You know, once I put my shingle out there out of the people that I had helped along the way and this is really a Lesson for the people that are on the call. When you build up social capital, and you’ve helped people along the way, they return the favor. tenfold. So I put up my shingle and went, Well, you need a website, I’ll put a website for you. You need, you need a logo, I’ll do a logo for you. You need business cards, you need this, you need that. Let’s, let’s all do this for you. So we had this whole neat group of people that came forward and said, Ken you help us in the past, let us help you build your company. So we need to have a focus. And we decided since you know, I’ve been in sales all my life, my son had been in sales all of his life, we just said, Let’s put salespeople to work. And that was our lane. That’s been our lane ever since then. I mean, I mean, we’ve chased some shiny objects along the way that didn’t work out. But as long as we were staying in our lane, and putting sales professionals to work, we became very successful. So we’re a 10 year overnight success, Matt.
Matt Wolach 05:55
a 10 year overnight success, I love that. And I think a lot of founders on the call myself included are, are probably resonating with your story of hey, it’s amazing how other people have come to help. And I remember when I started my companies, inevitably I’d have somebody I helped previously that would come help me. And it’s just really cool how you kind of can create this ecosystem of this family around you of people who help and I’m glad that that worked well for for you also Ken. It’s funny, because a lot of the the struggle that that people have is building a strong sales team. And I’m glad that you focused on sales, by the way, like your son already. Good name. But let’s talk about building a sales team. Because it’s certainly a tough thing to do. In many cases. What do you look for in a strong sales performer? What tells you this is somebody who can really add value to a company?
Ken Lazar 06:54
Well, recruiting sales professionals is a unique process. It’s not like, you know, recruiting engineers or recruiting accountants or project managers, because there are a lot of moving parts In a sales professional, you’ve got base compensation, you’ve got variable compensation, you’ve got car allowances, you’ve got noncompetes, you’ve got a lot of things that you have to deal with, when you’re placing salespeople. So what I look for success when I’m recruiting for sales professionals, and I get an assignment, and we actually know what the requirements of the position are, we do a lot of work on LinkedIn. So our feeling is, is that any salesperson that we want to talk with has a robust LinkedIn profile. So that’s what we look for first. So because good salespeople understand networking, and, and doing those types of things, and LinkedIn is the source right now. So when I look at the past record of a salesperson, I’m looking to see the longevity of different positions. So I know that people say, well, past success, that doesn’t necessarily mean there’ll be future success. I tend to disagree with that. If I take a look at a sales professional, I’m looking at his background, and I see that he he stays in his company, maybe a year and a half or two years, and then moves on. I got I tend to take a look at that pretty well. You know, you never know what success is. Sometimes you can you can be at a company for a couple of years and not be successful. And it may take them that long to take you out of the position. So I look at that. Second thing I do is I really do some in depth interviewing Matt. So when we’re talking to salespeople, I mean, they need to have command of the English language, they need to have rapport with me, they have to understand what their craft is. And the one question that I asked, and I recommend this to anybody that’s listening to the call. The one question that I think that is the one that needs to be answered the most. And the most accurately when I asked, how do you build your sales funnel? And if I don’t get a real detailed answer of that, then I’m I’m suspicious, because we need to know because that’s where the sales process starts. And if if a candidate does not know how he does that, that’s a problem. You agree with that Matt?
Matt Wolach 09:30
I totally agree. I totally agree if they don’t have a good understanding of how just the fundamentals the basic, that’s basic, I mean, if they don’t understand that, then it’s rough and a lot of people listening to call might be like, Well, I don’t I don’t quite understand that either. Well, that’s okay. If you’re running a business if you’re a founder, if you started something you may not fully understand sales, but somebody who is a quote unquote sales professional who’s trying to get a, a high quality job should have an understanding of that should already know exactly how to do that. And I think that that’s A really good question to ask because you’re right, some of the ones that can ask that are likely not going to be the best performers. Right?
Ken Lazar 10:08
Exactly. So that’s one of the things to start off the process. Matt, is that the interview, them understanding the sales process, how they go about prospecting, how they go about new business, how do they gain rapport with customers? How do they know which which clients to go after? So those are all things? If they have developed that process, then then we’ll talk further.
Matt Wolach 10:34
Yeah, I like it. I think that’s great. So when you’re putting together a strong sales team, if you’re a leader, do you have to try and mix different types of salespeople different types of personalities? Are you just trying to find the best possible performer? What’s your vision of that?
Ken Lazar 10:51
That’s a good point. I think that there’s a lot of love it. So I get this a lot. “Ken I only want “A” player’s” I mean, I want players to come in here and I want them, I don’t want to manage them. I just want them to go out. And I want them to get the new business and bring it into me and laying in front of my lap. And that’s the big thing. So the question that I ask is, okay, are you a “A” company? And they look at me like, What does that mean? So do you have the best compensation program in the industry? Do you have the best benefit program in the industry? What do you have to offer “A” players. So I get, you know, if you want “A” players, you need to be an “A” company, and you’ve got to attract them, because otherwise “A” players go to “A” companies and they know which ones those are. And if I approach them, and I give them a program that they understand, then they’ll listen to me, and they’ll interview with the company. So the other thing too, is, is that you can’t build your entire sales team with Mavericks. Otherwise, I mean, there will be no cooperation amongst the sales professionals on your team. So you got to find people that will, that will work together for the benefit of the entire sales organization. I mean, you want people to build their make their goals, but you also want support amongst people on your sales team. So those are the two things that I think I there’s matters volumes written on this. But those are the two things that I look at to make sure that there’s a good fit with the candidates and I provide them.
Matt Wolach 12:28
It’s really good insight. And I want to go back to what you talked about, because you said hey, I want “a” players to just come in and, and just do everything and I don’t have to do anything. I’m here to tell you that that’s the dream. That’s not a reality. And I’ve experienced that myself where I thought, hey, I’ll just hire an awesome sales guy, he’ll come in and just take care of everything right and no, they fail, if we don’t give them a proper structure or a framework, even if they’re an “A” player, if they don’t have a process that’s already proven to follow, it’s gonna be very tough for them to come into a new job, potentially a new industry, and actually get results quickly. And so one of the things I learned early was that I was failing my sales team, because I didn’t provide them with the proper structure, proper foundation, that even the best could use. So that’s something that well, that’s why a lot of people come to me little small plug there. But that’s why people come to me so that they can get that structure and that foundation in place so that they can bring in awesome sales rep, plug them into that process, and they can take off. So one of the things I look for and I want to ask you is are you coachable? Do you have the ability to learn? Or are you already set in your ways, and already, you have to do it this way or the highway or? That’s one thing I love is somebody who’s coachable, able to adjust and learn a new process that maybe they don’t understand quite yet and be able to execute that running. Do you see that same thing?
Ken Lazar 13:54
Yeah, I think the other thing too, I totally agree with that method. But the other thing too, is the compensation program has to be understandable. So an “A” player, a classic salesperson that makes his living makes a very good living and sales, will take a look at the compensation program and look at it and go, I understand it. I know what I have to do to make to make money for the company. I know I understand how I need to use this process to make money for myself. So if the salesperson understands that he’s gonna go out and get you business, if the salesperson doesn’t understand your compensation program, and it isn’t in line with his goals and the company’s goals, it is bound for failure. So that’s the other key point is that to make sure your comp program makes sense, and it is not so frickin complicated, that nobody knows how to make money. And so you’re selling the wrong things and you’re realizing I didn’t make this the goals that I should have or the compensation I should have. So it’s key, make it simple, make it understandable and make sure it matches your salespersons personal goals with the company’s goals, you’ll make money.
Matt Wolach 15:18
I totally agree. Yeah, that’s one of my biggest frustrations is when I start working with a company and the compensation structure isn’t great, either. It doesn’t motivate the rep. Or it motivates the rep to do things that don’t help the company, which is not great. Point, And you know, one of the biggest things that that isn’t one of the most popular things is the way you do your monthly quotas. If you do a monthly quota, well guess what if the rep reaches that monthly quota on on day, 22 of the month, they’re probably not going to do much the rest of the month, if they’ve already hit quota, because they want to save those deals for the next month to make sure they hit the next month’s quota. And so having the wrong type of compensation structure is going to lead to reps not actually doing the best possible job for the company, they’re doing the best possible job for them. So I totally resonate with what you’re saying, Ken is, let’s get that compensation structure to align. So that what helps the company what helps them and vice versa, that way they’re going to be motivated, do things that are going to benefit everybody. I think it’s the best way to do it.
Ken Lazar 16:18
The other thing, too, is Don’t screw with it. I mean, that’s when I get the calls. I mean, I’m out there trying to find the top salespeople for my clients. And I’ll a talk with them. They’re not ready. They’re having a great time, and then I’ll get a call from them. Ken they change my compensation program. I’m ready. So that that’s how I find that top salespeople come to me is that because the company has done something that isn’t in line with their or have completely changed the compensation, or they can’t make as much money as I have in the past? I’m out. So that’s the other thing. Don’t screw with the compensation program.
Matt Wolach 17:02
Yeah, I always kind of chuckle inside when leaders start to change that and start to say, Oh, well, sales reps are making too much money. Let’s change it. And I say, Well, hold on. is the company doing well? Is their performance helping the company accelerate? Because if that’s the case, who cares? If you’ve structured it, right? If they’re making a lot of money, you’re making a lot of money. And that’s the way it has to be right. And I had one leader that I was really wild with, because he told me Matt, I am so glad to pay an awesome huge commission check to my sales team, because it means that we did great. And that’s that’s when things are working well. Right.
Ken Lazar 17:38
Totally agree. Absolutely. Matt.
Matt Wolach 17:41
So what other mistakes are sales leaders making or or company leaders making when they’re trying to build a sales team and and how can they avoid them?
Ken Lazar 17:49
Well, the biggest one is, is not understanding your sales process and understand your hiring process. So I work with whatever process my clients want to work with their processes. And different companies have different processes, different interviewing schedules, what have you. The worst thing that you can do is delay hiring an A player. So I got a person that is it meets the qualifications of the position, I submit the candidate. I don’t hear anything from the from the company. We’re waiting, we’re waiting, we’re waiting. And so all of a sudden, you know, a week later, I get a call says well, let’s set up an interview with this candidate. What do you think the candidate thinks of the company? Not much. So you’ve already started behind the eight ball, because you haven’t made a conscientious effort to react to this candidate’s interest immediately. If you if you look, if you go on, even if there is a lengthy, I don’t want to, I don’t want you to hire quickly. I want you to hire in a process that the candidate understands that the candidate says, you’d say I’m going to interview you now. There’s going to be two other people that are going to interview you, the process will take a week, then if we like people bringing in and so you you continue with the process until you decide Yeah, this is the candidate that I want to bring in. And I am keeping the candidate apprised of what the process is at every single step that will make candidate feel really really good about this company because of the interest the company has shown in him. So the company has to know that even though it is a still a candidates market and the companies have to understand that they have to sell the candidate it isn’t the other way around. This has changed dramatically. So if you get a good candidate, you’re gonna have to sell them on the company. Not every candidate immediately wants to work for your company. You’ve got to make sure that you have the process and the everything that is necessary for this person’s success. So that’s my evaluation that makes sure that your hiring process is locked down. And you don’t change it midstream. Oh, you know, Gary wanted to interview you, too. And you know, and our Secretary wants to interview you. That does doesn’t make for for a very good experience for the candidate.
Matt Wolach 20:22
No, it certainly does not, it’s it, it gets it to be really tough for them to realize that this is somebody I want to work for. And that’s not what we want. We want them to be energized and passionate for this opportunity. So, Ken, this is this is some great stuff. And I’m sure we could talk for hours about this. But unfortunately, we’ve run short of time. So how can our audience learn more about you in ability professional network?
Ken Lazar 20:44
Well, just go to our website, abilityprofessional.com and learn about us, you know, see if there’s something that we can do to help you grow your sales team. That’s all we do. You know, we’ve we’ve placed sales professionals right from Vice President right now to sales representatives on the street, we know how to do it, love to help. And if there’s anybody out there, Matt, that, you know, just just go website, contact me or on the contact form, and we will respond immediately.
Matt Wolach 21:19
I love that. We’ll put all that into the show notes. So if you’re listening, you can go grab that there. But he’s Ken Lazar, and he just gave us a lot of great information. So thank you, Ken, appreciate you coming on the show.
Ken Lazar 21:29
Matt,. It’s been my pleasure. Thank you very much. Have a good weekend.
Matt Wolach 21:33
Thank you, you too, and everybody out there. Thank you for watching and listening. Once again, make sure that you’re subscribed. You don’t want to miss out on any other gems like Ken just shared with us here. So go ahead and subscribe. That way you’ll get all the good stuff from Scale Your SaaS. Thanks for being here. Take care and we’ll see you next time.