EPISODE SUMMARY
In the recent episode of Scale Your SaaS, host and B2B Matt Wolach had a compelling conversation with Frank Husmann, CEO & Founder of Maxiality, an ex-SaaS founder turned authority marketing expert. Frank shared valuable insights on how B2B SaaS leaders can leverage their expertise to become industry authorities and drive business growth. Here’s a deep dive into the key takeaways from their discussion.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 323, “How to Be the #1 Choice in Your Industry – with Frank Husmann”
Guest: Frank Husmann, CEO & Founder of Maxiality
Host: Matt Wolach, a B2B SaaS Sales Coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Sponsored by: Leadfeeder
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Understanding Authority Marketing
Authority marketing is about leveraging the expertise within your organization, often from the founder or other subject matter experts, to position yourself as an industry leader. This approach not only attracts clients but also generates speaking opportunities, podcast invitations, and talented hires. Frank emphasized that becoming an authority is a gradual process, achieved by consistently sharing valuable insights and data-driven content.
Shifting from Product Focus to Results Focus
One critical mistake SaaS companies make is being overly product-focused. Frank pointed out that while many founders are passionate about their products, they often need to convey the results their solutions deliver. I echoed this sentiment, advising that instead of selling features, software companies should highlight the transformative outcomes their products enable.
The Pitfalls of Traditional Marketing
Frank criticized the outdated practices of generating inbound leads through low-quality content and aggressive sales tactics. He noted that these methods result in high acquisition costs and unqualified leads. Instead, he advocated for a demand generation approach that emphasizes consistently showcasing expertise across all relevant channels supported by strategic advertising.
Practical Steps for Founders to Build Authority
Frank outlined a systematic approach to authority marketing:
- Schedule Regular Content Creation: Plan monthly interviews with founders to extract valuable insights. Use these sessions to generate a wide array of content, including blog articles, LinkedIn posts, newsletters, and YouTube videos.
- Develop a Unique Point of View: Stand out by articulating a distinct industry-issue perspective. This could involve challenging standard practices or offering innovative solutions.
- Leverage Multi-Channel Distribution: Utilize platforms where your target audience is active. Amplify successful content with targeted ads, particularly on LinkedIn.
- Integrate Sales and Marketing Efforts: Ensure marketing content aligns with sales needs, providing valuable resources for use throughout the software sales process.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
From SaaS Founder to Authority Marketing Expert
Frank’s journey began as a SaaS founder who successfully built and sold a B2B marketing software company. Post-sale, investors frequently sought his advice to help other SaaS businesses grow. Recognizing the potential to systemize his knowledge, Frank transitioned into creating an intelligent agency focused on helping SaaS founders establish authority in their niches.
Final Thoughts
For new SaaS leaders, Frank’s advice is clear: start building authority from day one. Early efforts in sharing expertise and engaging with your target market will pay off in the long run, positioning you as a trusted industry leader. With a well-defined strategy and consistent execution, authority marketing can significantly enhance your brand’s visibility and credibility.
Authority marketing is not just a strategy; it’s a commitment to consistently sharing your expertise and becoming a trusted voice in your industry. Start today, and watch your influence—and your business—grow.
TOP QUOTES
Frank Hussman
[04:23] “Authority marketing is basically using the knowledge that’s in the organization, most of the time, it’s the founder or any other subject matter expert, using that knowledge to become an expert in the industry.”
[19:56] “Having a unique point of view… there are so many other things that you can do to create a unique point of view because if you do that, then you will really stand out in the crowd.”
[22:13] “Make sure that if you start early, you can fine-tune your messaging, you can fine-tune your point of view. And you’ll have a lot of buffer of content that you can use when you want to advertise, for example, but you’re already inside your ICP talking if you’re doing this right.”
Matt Wolach
[06:24] “Something I teach my clients is, don’t sell your product, sell the results. If you just push product, product, feature, feature, feature, it gets boring, and it looks the same as every other product out there.”
[08:40] “I love what you’re talking about, about how founders need to leverage their expertise because you’re right, so many founders I work with, they came up with the product because of their own problems.”
LEARN MORE
To learn more about Maxiality, visit: https://maxiality.com/
You can also find Frank on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zinspiratie/
For more about how Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com.
Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free trial: https://www.leadfeeder.com/
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Check out the whole episode transcript here:
Matt Wolach 00:00
It’s your first time with us. This is a show dedicated to helping you understand how to grow an amazing SaaS company. So you’re going to learn how to generate a whole bunch of great leads. You’ll know how to get those leads emotional, convert them and close them. And you’ll understand how to scale a sales team to help you do it all. If you want any of those things. Definitely subscribe to the show right now. That way every week, you’re gonna have amazing experts and innovators and leaders telling you exactly what to do so you can Scale Your SaaS. These are people who help SaaS companies or are doing it themselves. You’re gonna want to hear from these unbelievable experts. And I’ve got one of these incredible people with me today. I’ve got Frank Husmann with me, Frank, how you doing?
Frank Husmann 00:38
Hey, Matt, thanks for having me. I’m doing great. How about yourself?
Matt Wolach 00:41
I’m doing great as well. I really looking forward to this episode. So thanks for being here. And I want to I want to make sure everybody knows who you are Frank. So Frank, he’s the CEO and founder of Maxiality, he is a former SaaS founder himself, and he’s now focused on helping SaaS leaders claim their authority. I’m really looking forward to hearing more about that. Maxi ality this company transforms b2b companies into the number one choice in their industry. So they consistently generate opportunities, shorten their sales cycle and lower their acquisition costs, all things that we all want. So, Frank, I’m super excited to talk. Thanks for being on the show. Yeah, thanks
Frank Husmann 01:17
Yeah, thanks for having me, Matt. Yeah, great.
Matt Wolach 01:20
For sure. So tell me what’s been going on with you lately? And what’s coming up?
Frank Husmann 01:24
Yeah. So well, we’ve actually been onboarding a few new clients. And that was kind of interesting period, of course, because you know how it goes, right? First, you, you need to talk to some prospects, then they become clients. And then yeah, now we’re actually out of capacity at the moment. So that’s a luxury thing, to be honest. And, yeah. So we were just in the phase, which is rolling everything out right now. And it’s always great to meet new SaaS founders. That’s what we work with most of the time. But next to that, we also have the other clients that we’re still servicing, of course, and yeah, it’s, it’s really fun. And I think there’s still so much opportunity in SaaS still. So yeah, I’m seeing this every other day, actually. Yeah.
Matt Wolach 02:09
So cool. Congrats to you on building your business to that point. And it’s one of those things, it’s kind of funny, a lot of people come to me because they need help generating leads or closing deals or, or what have you. And they all they always kind of laugh when I say, hey, you know what, once you get to that new level, there’s a new devil, you’re going to hit a point where, oh, you’ve got too much interest. Now, how do you manage that? How do you filter through and find the right ones that you need to work with how to scale your team so you can serve more? It’s so funny how there’s just different challenges at different levels.
Frank Husmann 02:40
That’s what I always compare it to, there’s always an end boss on every new level, and then there’s another end boss, and there’s another end boss. And there might be an end of the game, of course, I mean, it can be like when you sell a company, or you do an IPO or whatever. But then there’s of course a new game.
Matt Wolach 02:55
So true. So true. Beating that end boss and getting to the next level is our goal. I want to go back So what made you create Maxiality How did this whole thing happen?
Frank Husmann 03:04
Yeah, so like you mentioned in the intro, I’m an ex SaaS founder as well. And so my company created a b2b marketing software. And at some point, I think after five years or so, I sold the company. And after that people started calling me, especially investors, they called me in with the question that Hey, Frank, you know a little bit about creating a SaaS company marketing and sales, doing some sales. Do you want to help me with the investment I made? And can you help these people grow their SaaS business? And I was like, Yeah, sure, why not? Because I’d like to share the knowledge that I’ve built up. And, of course, the people that I’ve made the connections that I made as well. And yeah, that’s how I got the ball rolling. And I think, I think two years ago, that was about three years ago, and two years ago, I was like, Maybe I should productize this into something and see if I can create some smart agency out of it. Because there’s there are many people that create an agency and it’s most of the time, it’s an hourly base model. And we were we are more trying to systemize everything and productize everything still helping SaaS founders becoming an expert in their in their niche and and market.
Matt Wolach 04:11
I love it. I love it. And one of the big things you talk about I love hearing this authority marketing. Can you talk a little bit about what authority marketing is? And and how can b2b SaaS leaders implement it?
Frank Husmann 04:23
Yeah, so authority marketing is basically using the knowledge that’s in the organization. And most of time, it’s the founder or any other subject matter expert, using that knowledge to become an expert in the industry. And when you do that long enough, you become an authority in that industry. And when you are an authority, then you will draw clients to you within only clients, podcasts invites, speaking opportunities, you’ll it will be a lot easier to get talent to work for you as well. And I mean, that’s that’s the thing that we’re doing right now. And actually, that was something that I did as well for my size because we were in the b2b marketing space and in Western Europe, most mostly, and we just created lots of reports and stuff like that we were in the the channels that were audiences were as well, we created so much of our own data to show that we were knowing our stuff. So you can do it in a couple of ways. We use a lot of data. But it can also be just sharing your journey and sharing about the things that have been going on with your prospects or your clients basically. And the thing that I’ve been seeing with lots of SAS founders is that they got a great product, but they tell a lot of things about the product, right? Especially in high ticket b2b size, that it’s so product focused, so feature focused, and if you’re lucky, they talk a little bit about the jobs to be done, or maybe about their ICP, but that’s still so so shallow. And the thing that I liked the founders, I was passionate about their product, right? So I tried to get that passionate knowledge out of them, and make sure it’s there on all the channels down there ICP is that.
Matt Wolach 05:57
Yeah, I love it. I love it. It’s so true. I love it. I like the way you’re saying because something I teach my clients is, don’t sell your product, sell the results. And if you just push product product feature feature feature, it gets boring, and it looks the same as every other product out there. But if you talk about the results, and all the amazingness that someone saw was able to accomplish and look at what she did, look what he did. That’s going to get big time, you know, lift for your for your numbers, and it’s something that actually works. It sounds like that’s working for you and your clients as well
Frank Husmann 06:24
Yeah, that’s funny. If you check about 10, b2b SaaS websites, if you check their their LinkedIn company page, compared to a couple of founders of the same companies, sometimes it’s night or day if we’re lucky, basically. But sometimes the founder is doing nothing. And the company page only post stuff about a new feature a new hire, or a new PR thing that makes no sense at all, because I don’t know, they got some funding, whatever, which is great. But still, I mean, you know, and, yeah, there’s no nor expertise, really. And yeah, that’s what we’ve been doing. And it’s also because of the whole b2b marketing and sales space has changed a lot in the last three to five years, I would say, because everyone in the marketing space was just running the HubSpot playbook, create lots of inbound leads with lots of crappy white papers, that kind of work for a while. But yeah, that whole motion is really, I think it’s dead in the water. Why? Because of the high costs to acquire these leads. And the second thing is, these leads are just just leads, they’re just maybe people that are interested in the topic, right, but we’ve been pushing them to sales a lot. I mean, you know all about it, right? And they gots calling the 100 people, and it just ends up into nothing. And this, this used to work as much but but the buyers are smarter as well. And the second thing that’s also part of that problem is in the playbook I mean is that the buyers are really smart as well. They know, they’re gonna get bombarded by whatever, SMS text messages, WhatsApp messages, emails, LinkedIn messages, whatever, nurture campaigns. So yeah, that’s a challenge right now. So one of the things that I’ve learned over the past, I think two and a half years is that if you flip that, it’s actually now called demand generation, but what of whatever, right? At the end of the day, it’s just showing your expertise and doing that in a consistent way on all the channels that your prospects are at. So it’s a way of content marketing in the end. But with with more focused on distribution, and last part about is that the things that work really well, you can push that with ads, especially on LinkedIn, because of the ICP, that’s most of the time on LinkedIn. So if you do a lot of organic stuff, you know, what works is showing your expertise, you can push that with LinkedIn ads, so it really just gets into each other and helps each other.
Matt Wolach 08:40
Yeah, sounds like it. And I love what you’re talking about, about how founders need to leverage their expertise, because you’re right, so many founders I work with, they’ve came up with the product because of their own problems. And so they’ve gone through these things, they’re living the life that their own prospects in their market is living. But how do you recommend that let’s say a founder is like, Okay, I believe it Frank has taught me that I need to do this. What do they do? What’s the best way for them to kind of leverage that expertise?
Frank Husmann 09:07
Yeah, so there are two ways to do it. I can tell you how we do it, or you can do the goat the do it yourself route. So let’s just focus on how we do it is that we plan one interview every month, with the founder for one hour. And we just make sure we that we plan it every month. Because you know how busy these people are? Right? I know from experience. So if you just plan it, it’s there. And it can be it can be it can be rescheduled to hopefully not right. So this one hour, we of course will prepare what we’re going to ask. And we got we now got a great list of things that we can can ask the founder, and we do it in a journalistic way. So we really try to coach the founders, because not everyone is really I mean, they’d like to talk right but we need to coach them that they’re going to say something that makes sense to their audience, right? Use the words that the audience uses. Some of them get it perfectly right out of the out of the gate, but some of them need some coaching. So we really help them do that. Create a message and make sure they have their own unique point of view. Because that’s really, really important. I mean, say something that, for example, that, that you definitely do not agree with that it’s something that’s common in the market, for example that makes, that creates a unique point of view, for example, there are so many other things that you can do to create a unique point of view. Because if you do that, then you will really stand out in the crowd. So that’s one hour, an interview using a tool like Riverside or zoom, whatever. And that that interview will we’ll use to create a blog article LinkedIn organic posts, LinkedIn ads, of course, and newsletter, YouTube videos as well. And the best stuff that works we’ll put it next month in the LinkedIn cold layer, or maybe in the in the warm later in retargeting audience, which, whatever works, because we record different snippets. And we will have a library for sales as well, because we’re using the videos as well, because some of these are just FAQ is pre sales FAQs, for example, these are the easy ones to record. So yeah, it’s it’s going from left to right, as you know, just from marketing and sales. And I think this has always been the missing link more or less. Sales was always always complaining about marketing. And marketing is like, Yeah, well, I mean, let’s talk together, you know, but they’re busy, whatever, they’ll always different reasons. And if you do it like this, you get every all the information from the horse’s mouth. And the questions are, of course, sourced, from our own experience, from sales team from customer success, support, whatever, you know, so we’ll have great question that will help move forward. I mean, months or even longer? Of course, yeah. That’s the amazing we’re using and the do it yourself process would actually be the exact same one, right?
Matt Wolach 11:46
Yeah, and the problem, there is one the time that you have to spend to do all that. And then the expertise, like a lot of people don’t know exactly how to pull off all of those channels. I mean, that sounds like from one interview, you’re creating an amazing multi channel bit of content that’s really kind of building the buzz within the industry for this founder in this company. I think that’s, that’s really phenomenal. So it’s, I mean, from my perspective, basically, I learned this a long time ago from a from a mentor of mine, and he said, Hey, with marketing, you can do, you can pay with money, you can pay with time. And essentially, I love that you guys are doing a great job, but making it so that the founder doesn’t have to spend all the time spending one hour a month to get all that content. Incredible.
Frank Husmann 12:29
Yeah, thanks, man. I mean, I also speak to a lot of marketing managers, as well as some of them, I coach as well. And they all have the problem of time, right? Because they need to do so many other stuff as well. And it’s really a challenge to do this in. So you make sure you’re doing it always, because at the end of the day, you don’t become an expert or even an authority overnight, or in a month or so it takes we see results. Well, it depends. I mean, we’ve seen results in 10 days, which is insane. We can talk about later, everyone, but most of the time, it’s in three months, we’re definitely going to see results, within six months, you’re going to be a real name in the industry. And in 12 months, you’re definitely going to be an authority, if you make sure, of course, I mean, you’re not going to be the authority in CRM or whatever. But in a niche in CRM, you’re not going to be Salesforce in 1212 months. But yeah, that’s basically it. And the time is definitely an issue. And the other thing is that, especially marketing people, they are more or less, and this is not really trying to be negative about marketeers or marketing. But it’s sometimes just checkbox marketing is like, oh, we need to create a blog, or we need to create a social faux need to put something on the LinkedIn company page, or we need to do a webinar or whatever, you know, oh, we need to make a leaflet brochure, whatever. And it’s, it’s what is not from a strategy one. And it’s all really, okay, we need to create something, let’s nowadays just let’s fire up ChatGPT. And we’ll create a blog article or whatever it’s like, Well, okay, maybe she just stopped do subject matter expert, I really hope that people are doing that. But I mean, if your schedule is regular, you will have so much the content will be so much better, and you will definitely going to beat AI as well, because it’s going to be unique.
Matt Wolach 14:08
Very true. Very true. And I know that, you know, creating credibility, building trust building credibility. I mean, it’s so important. How are you doing this? How are you helping founders and leaders achieve that? Yeah,
Frank Husmann 14:21
Yeah, so I think you mentioned that it’s so important. And the reason why it’s important is because we’re in SAS space, and you can you can touch it, you can shape it in a box. So it’s a you can make lots of pictures. Right. So it’s really, it’s it’s yeah, it’s that’s, it’s not tangible. So that’s, that’s quite hard. That’s one and the other thing is that, especially nowadays there, unless you’re in unknown territory, creating your own category there are there are quite a lot of competitors in your space probably, even if you don’t know yet there will be right because of the entrance to enter the software space right now, which is great because I mean, there’s still so much opportunity left. But the thing is that a If you want to stand out, it is important to show your expertise in the end, because then you will not have any kind to be done in other ways as well. You can create a great community around your software, that will work as well. But creating community is really hard. But that’s not a route that you could take. So we’re going with the with the expertise route. And your question was actually, how can they do that? Right? Yeah, if you’re going to boil it all down, then what you need is a schedule. Of course, that’s what I started with. And if you want to talk about the nuts and bolts, we use a lot of AI as well to create the stuff that we’re doing. But it’s also since we’re SAS founders, as well, my co founder s also helped to skyrocket to SAS, we know what’s going on in the founders mind, right? You’re not talking to an intern or someone that doesn’t really know a lot about what’s going on. So we’re talking about with sea level, people from sometimes big corporations, scale ups, or corporations as well that have got software as a service products running. So we know what they’re going through. And that really helps as well. So that’s the first part. And the second part is how do we do it? Well, like like I mentioned before, it’s just Riverside, and then making sure that we create a process we systemize everything, basically. So some of it is how can we create generate a LinkedIn post from that we definitely know how that looks from the hook to the visual that we need to post or the carousel that we that we need to make. And that’s that’s all systemized
Matt Wolach 16:33
I love it. And I’m, I’m a big believer in process, those of the audience who have listened to the show for a long time, many of my clients who listened to the show you they’ll know I’m very focused on process, I love that you have this system that you know, that works, it’s proven. And you can implement it and probably customize it to each prospect for their own particular market and their needs. But I think it’s really important because so many times like you said earlier on, people are focused on pushing the company, and especially on social, they’re pushing the company company, but people buy from people and people trust people more than the brand. And if you can focus on building the brand of that person of the of that authority of the figure who’s maybe the face of the company, whether that’s the CEO or what have you, that is actually something people can connect with. And I always tell my clients, it’s so funny, you know, Tesla has like 15 million followers on Twitter, but Elon has like 180 million followers just because it’s that personal connection that people really resonate with. And too many people don’t understand that and aren’t pushing their own personal brand. Yeah,
Frank Husmann 17:38
I think Elon is the best example of authority marketing. Right, man?
Matt Wolach 17:44
Very, very true. Very true. Okay, so what are some of the mistakes that companies are making? What are they doing wrong? What are some of these pitfalls in authority marketing that they got to watch out? For? Yeah,
Frank Husmann 17:55
Yeah, that’s a great question, Matt. So one of the mistakes that I see just people just, you know, they just are like, okay, so we need to create videos, right? So they’re gonna grow all crazy. Which is, I mean, it’s always great to experiment with something. But I mean, you need always to set some goals, what do you want to do? How do you want to do it? What are? What are the things that always start with some sort of strategy and talking to your customers as well? Because it’s, it’s, it’s so easy to talk about your products. But it’s really hard to talk about the problems that your clients are facing or your possible prospects are facing, right. But I mean, at the end of the day, it’s not that hard, because when you found a company, you definitely know what they’re going through. But anyway, I sometimes see that go wrong, that you’re not going to think about what the audience your prospect really want. So I mean, it’s not that hard, but I still see that go wrong. And the second thing is that not having a unique point of view, I mean, you can create all kinds of stuff about SAS and sales, right. But if there’s no nothing, something unique, and I mean, what makes you unique is, for example, your track record, Matt, I mean, if you had a couple of x’s, right, that’s, that’s something that a lot of people do not have that talk about SAS and sales. I think from my end, I’ve had an x as well. So that makes me unique as well. And I think another part of my point of view is that I’m really not a big fan of the old way of generating leads, and leads and leads. So that’s something that I, I’m, I’m really passionate about, let’s put it that way. Because I know there’s another way and I see it with my clients. And well, not only with my clients, I see it for myself as well. So that’s having a unique point of view. So make sure that you develop that. And that’s not something that you will I mean, if you’re just starting out with some new software that you create, it’s not something that you’ll probably have right out of the gate. It’s something that you do learn to develop. And there are great questions that you can ask yourself where you can your team can ask you, and one of them is like I mentioned before, what’s something that you really disagree with that something that is going on in your market? That kind of helps as well?
Matt Wolach 19:56
Yeah, I think that’s great. Yeah, it’s just kind of explaining some of the The things that you counter against what the common thinking is, is super important. It gets people energized, it starts to shift belief. That’s one thing. I think that’s really powerful. If you can help shift beliefs and getting people to kind of think differently, that’s a, that’s a big win for you, I want to that we’re kind of getting towards time, I want to ask you, people, I, you’ve done a great job of convincing us that we need this authority marketing. So what advice would you give to a new software leader who says, Okay, we got to do this for our company, what would you share? Yeah.
Frank Husmann 20:29
So I mean, one of the things that I would like to, to my advice is always please talk to your customers as much as you possibly can, because they never do. Yeah. And this has nothing to do basically, with marketing or authority Mark, this is building a great product that works for your audience, right. And, I mean, it’s always hard because you’ve got so many things that you need to do. But yeah, please try and talk to customers or prospects. That’s my number one advice for any SAS founder, it doesn’t matter if you just got 5 million or 100 million from a VC, or just starting out, it’s really important. So that’s the one thing and the other thing is that if you want to go the authority route, I think you should start right out of the gate as well. Because people need to know that you’re doing something that you’re trying to solve their problems, and that you know, what their problems are like. So you better start early. And the greatest thing is that, if you start early, you will have lots of content that you can use in all these different channels that we’re talking about. And it’s even more important right now, because of the whole dark social thing that’s been going on five years, or 10 years ago, we only had Google and a little bit of LinkedIn, maybe. But now we got so many different channels, communities, discourse, whatever, you’re not right. WhatsApp groups. And so make sure that if you start early, you can fine tune your messaging, you can fine tune your point of view. And you’ll have a lot of buffer of content that you can use when you want to advertise, for example, but you’re already inside your ICP talking if you’re doing this right. So I mean, yeah, just start would be the number one tip, but make sure that you do have some sort of strategy behind that.
Matt Wolach 22:13
Love it. And I totally agree, most people don’t talk enough to their customers or a target market. And it just, it just gets you so much you learn exactly what they’re thinking and what their angle is and how their concept of certain problem is. And then you can build out your product towards that you can build your marketing and all that towards it you can build your sales process towards. It’s just so much that you miss out on if you don’t really truly understand your market. So I think that’s excellent advice, Frank, and this has been awesome. It’s been a whole lot of fun. I love hearing your passion for what you’re doing. Can you share with us? You know, how can our audience learn more about what you’re doing and Maxiality?
Frank Husmann 22:50
Yeah, I just go to Maxiality.com. And I’ve got some free trainings and stuff as well. If you want to know more about authority, marketing and doing it yourself as well or connect with me on LinkedIn. I’m Frank Hussman. And, yeah, it’s been a pleasure to share everything that I know about authority marketing with you, Matt and your audience. Thanks.
Matt Wolach 23:06
You’re welcome. And thanks for being here and everybody else out there. Thank you for listening. Thanks for watching. Really appreciate it. Once again, make sure you’re subscribed. You don’t want to miss out on any other amazing experts like Frank that we have coming up, hit that subscribe button and you’ll be good to go. We’re also looking for reviews. So if you feel like we’re giving you value and you’re you’re hearing great stuff like what Frank shared today, please give a review that will help us spread the word so that anybody else might find us as well. So thanks for being here. Take care, and we’ll see you next time. Bye bye.
