EPISODE SUMMARY
In a recent episode of Scale Your SaaS, Matt Watson, CEO and Founder of Full Scale, shared his journey from being a customer to leading a successful outsourcing company with host and B2B SaaS Sales Coach Matt Wolach. Matt’s insights provide valuable lessons for entrepreneurs, especially those in the SaaS industry.
PODCAST-AT-A-GLANCE
Podcast: Scale Your SaaS with Matt Wolach
Episode: Episode No. 321, “How to Quickly Spin Up a Quality Engineering Team – with Matt Watson”
Guest: Matt Watson, Founder at Full Scale
Host: Matt Wolach, a B2B SaaS Sales Coach, Entrepreneur, and Investor
Sponsored by: Leadfeeder
TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE
Transitioning from Doer to Leader
For Matt, transitioning from doing the work to leading a team involved empowering his team members to achieve their best. He believes that a leader’s role is to support and enable their team to reach their full potential.
Common Mistakes in Scaling Software Startups
One common mistake Matt identifies is the lack of a clear vision or strategy. He advises SaaS startups to have a well-defined plan and direction to ensure successful growth and scaling.
Importance of Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)
Understanding the Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) is crucial. It helps businesses target their marketing efforts effectively and attract the right clients, ensuring long-term success.
Matt’s journey offers valuable lessons for entrepreneurs and SaaS sales leaders looking to leverage outsourcing and AI in their operations. His experience underscores the importance of clear vision, strategic planning, and the right approach to building and leading teams.
EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS
Becoming CEO of Full Scale
Matt was initially a customer of Full Scale, impressed by the company’s services. When the opportunity arose, he joined as CEO, bringing his expertise and vision to the forefront of the company’s growth. Today, the company boasts over 300 employees in the Philippines and provides top-tier outsourcing services to businesses worldwide.
Benefits of Outsourcing
According to Matt, outsourcing enables software companies to scale quickly and access a global talent pool, which is particularly advantageous for SaaS startups. He emphasizes that outsourcing is not about compromising quality but about finding skilled professionals who can deliver outstanding results.
Misconceptions about Outsourcing
One major misconception Matt addresses is the belief that outsourcing means lower quality. In reality, it offers access to highly skilled professionals who can provide exceptional work. He stresses the importance of building a dedicated team that aligns with a company’s culture and processes.
AI in Software Development
Matt discusses AI’s transformative impact on software development, highlighting how it increases efficiency and allows teams to tackle complex problems more effectively. He sees AI as a game-changer for the industry.
TOP QUOTES
Matt Watson
[02:15] “The need for affordable software developers led me to start Full Scale, and today, we have over 300 employees in the Philippines.”
[04:30] “Outsourcing allows companies to scale faster and access a global talent pool, which is especially beneficial for tech startups.”
[06:05] “One major misconception is that outsourcing means lower quality. In reality, it can provide access to highly skilled professionals who deliver exceptional work.”
Matt Wolach
[14:37] “As a leader, your role shifts from doing the work yourself to empowering your team to achieve their best.”
[21:18] “Understanding your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP) is vital for targeting your marketing efforts and ensuring you’re attracting the right clients.”
LEARN MORE
- Visit Fullscale.io to learn more.
- You can also find Matt Watson on LinkedIn.
- For more about how Matt Wolach helps software companies achieve maximum growth, visit https://mattwolach.com.
- Head over to leadfeeder.com and sign up for a 14-day (no strings attached) free trial: https://www.leadfeeder.com/
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Check out the whole episode transcript here:
Matt Wolach 00:00
I am so pumped for this show, by the way, if this is your first time to Scale Your SaaS, what we’re trying to do here is get you exactly what it says scale your SaaS. How are we going to be able to generate a whole bunch of leads? How are we going to be able to close those leads? And how are you going to scale a team so that you can get this company where it’s got to be if you want any of those things, subscribe to the show right now, when you hit that button to subscribe, you’re gonna get all of these amazing innovators and creators around the world of SAS telling you exactly how to do just that. And one of these incredible people, I met him in Texas at the SaaSOpen. This guy is awesome. He’s done some incredible things, and he’s helping SaaS businesses grow. I’ve got Matt Watson with me, Matt, how you doing?
Matt Watson 00:41
Welcome, man. I, you know, I always love being part of the Matt and Matt show, so I’m excited for this today.
Matt Wolach 00:47
That sounds like it could be like its own thing, Matt and Matt. It sounds like one of those, like radio morning DJs, Matt and Matt in the morning. We won’t get too off topic here. Let me tell everybody who you are, Matt. So Matt, he’s the founder, CEO and CTO at Full Scale. This full scale is awesome. When I learned about this, this is definitely needed. It’s a tech services company that helps businesses build teams of software engineers. They make finding and retaining highly experienced software engineers, fast, easy and affordable. Matt has 20 plus years of experience as a SaaS startup CTO and CEO. He has founded four tech companies, including Vinsolutions, which was bootstrapped and exited for $150 million in 2011. Matt’s expertise is in SaaS startups and product development. He loves advising and talking to other entrepreneurs. He also hosts a podcast, which you will hear me on coming up in a bit, called Startup Hustle that is focused on entrepreneurship. So Matt, thanks for coming on the show.
Matt Watson 01:44
Yeah, excited to be here, man, and really excited to have you on my show later. So looking forward to it.
Matt Wolach 01:48
So tell me what’s been going on with you at full scale lately?
Matt Watson 01:53
So I actually was a co founder of this company six years ago, and in December of 2023 actually bought out my business partner and stepped in to be the CEO. Before that, I was actually one of the largest customers. So this company was actually started to support my SaaS companies before, because I needed to hire software developers, I needed to scale, but I couldn’t afford to hire them. So that’s actually how this started. And you know, it’s been a really fun last six months or so being the CEO of the company and continue to grow and scale. And had a good quarter, grew about 10% and things are good, man, life is good. Just got back from the Philippines, actually, too. So it was great trip.
Matt Wolach 02:29
I love it. And I think you told me you go there two or three times a year. Is that right? Did I hear that?
Matt Watson 02:33
I do. Yeah, we have 300 employees there, and we just hired a new head of sales, and so I wanted to take him over there so he could experience the culture, meet the people really understand. You know what it’s like to be on the ground there. And it was a really good trip for him. So glad we did it.
Matt Wolach 02:47
I love it. I have team members in the Philippines too. They’re amazing people. I want to get over there myself someday. But I want to ask you full scale. I mean, how did this thing come to be? Where did that all come from?
Matt Watson 02:57
Yeah. So as I mentioned, I had my own SaaS company called stackify in 2018 and I needed to hire about 10 software developers because we, we were competing in the application performance monitoring space. I needed to hire a bunch of developers to build a bunch of stuff to scale like it was the only way that we were going to scale. From a sales perspective, we actually had a bunch of product stuff we needed to build like it was only way we were going to scale. But I just couldn’t, I couldn’t afford to pay, you know, software developers in Kansas City, $150,000 a year, maybe 100 grand a year, whatever, like, there was just no way. So inevitably, that’s how we ended up in the Philippines. Friend of mine had some developers there, and he’s like, Matt, why don’t you just hire people over here? Or you have a couple people, and gave it a shot, and it worked out really good. And now we have 300 employees there. So that’s so cool.
Matt Wolach 03:41
It’s so cool. One thing I want to ask you, I’m sure a lot of people think, and this is something that, you know, the Philippines is obviously a great market to be able to find awesome people to help you out. I have some on my team. They’re fantastic people. They’re doing a lot of great stuff, but kind of the mindset might be okay. They might be able to do some VA things. Everybody talks about a VA virtual assistant. Everybody talks about maybe some executive assistant type help, maybe some little marketing thing here. I mean, I’m here to tell you my my people are marketing, and they are experts at what they do. They’re fantastic, but from an engineering perspective, do some people feel like, Oh no, they won’t have the talent or expertise of somebody else. What do you say to that?
Matt Watson 04:22
Well, I tell people all the time, 90% of software developers are not in the United States. There are smart people all over the world, right? And people hire software developers in Eastern Europe or Latin America, India, all these different places. There’s smart people everywhere, including in the Philippines. There’s really, really great colleges producing 10s of 1000s of, you know, college students every year graduating that most of them end up working for American companies, or Australian companies, Japanese companies, just like the call center work and BPO work, like the back office work, which there’s, like, millions and millions of those jobs there, like the people that work for you. There’s a lot of people doing software. Development. So a lot of people we’ve hired have worked for IBM, Accenture, Lexmark, national cash register, Kyocera, like all these companies. And, you know, companies like us hire people straight out of college too, and train them up, put them to work like it’s a very strong workforce, very talented,
Matt Wolach 05:18
Awesome. I love it. I totally believe it. Because before I had experience with it, I had no idea the type of talent, the type of expertise there was. And now that I have, I think eight people on my team that are amazing. They all have their specialties. I totally believe it. What I want to ask you is, when is the right time for outsourcing? So let’s say, obviously I’m gonna let me plug myself. I help people grow and they sell amazing stuff, and they grow their company. But then all of a sudden they realize we need more engineers. We need more product people. When do they realize I need to outsource this versus do something in house?
Matt Watson 05:54
You know, it’s probably similar to sales and marketing, right? It’s like, when do we need outside help? When do we need inside help? You know, do we use, you know, do we use the outside help to figure out how to do this stuff and eventually bring it in house? It’s the right mix of the two. I think it’s, it’s similar in a lot of ways. So on the engineering side, I actually really believe our customers are way better off if they have some sort of leadership, be it a CTO, a technical co founder, a director, VP, what, whatever, whatever the role is they I think it’s way better off if they have the technical leadership in house, right? And a lot of times at full scale, we end up being more of the supporting cast. You’re like, hey, we have a team of 2, 3, 4 or five people. We just need help. We need more people. And we provide an affordable way, and almost, I would say, a reasonable way, to afford developers, because a lot of times software developers make 100 to $200,000 a year. It’s crazy. So if you need to hire three of them or five of them, it’s nuts. You know, where we can provide a full time developer for $40-$50 – $60,000 a year, or whatever. So it’s way, way more affordable. And if you’re gonna scale, I think my answer is it’s, it’s a mix. It’s the mix of both. Is what is really what you want some in house talent, and then you can leverage outsource talent. But the thing is, there’s a wrong way and a right way to do it, and I’d love to tell you more about that.
Matt Wolach 07:13
Yeah, yeah, I do want to hear that, because I’ve definitely seen people go the wrong way. So what are those wrong and right ways?
Matt Watson 07:20
So traditional outsourcing usually refers to outsourcing, like a project. You’re like, oh, I need to do this thing. And when I get it back, I don’t, you know, I don’t really care how it was done. I just need it done, kind of like, you’re like, hey, I need to build a new website. You’re like, I don’t know. Some people did some WordPress magic, and at the end of it, I got my website. How they did it. I don’t know. That does not work very good for software development at all, because you have to provide the care and feeding of this thing long term. You need to know how it works. You’ve got to make changes to it. You know, software there’s like, no final version, right? You’re always making changes to it. So the mistake that people make is, is doing project work that way, because you don’t know who’s working on the project, and you don’t build up the tribal knowledge. You don’t build up like a team that supports this thing long term. So the right way to do it is staff augmentation, or Outstaffing is the new term, where it’s like you’re building a dedicated team that works for you, just like you have your dedicated team of eight, or whatever that works for you, right? Like it’s your team. So they build up that knowledge. They’re your dedicated team long term. That’s the key to doing this, not doing it project based. And you don’t want, like, some weird project manager in the way. Just imagine if for your team now you, like, had to play through somebody else, right? You always talk to somebody and then they talk to the other eight. Like, it doesn’t work as well. You want those people to work directly for you, and that’s what we do. So those are, you know, that’s our experience, and what we know works when we help people execute on this.
Matt Wolach 08:48
So I’m not an engineer, so help me out if I say really stupid stuff. But I have had many conversations with my engineers, and I know that sometimes you get into you create some swim lanes, and you say, Okay, this team is going to be focusing on this thing. That team’s going to focus going to focus on this thing. Obviously, we’ve got people overseeing them. Is that a good use case of, hey, we have this idea for an awesome addition to the product. We’re going to create a swim lane, and we want to put a team on it. Boom. We need full scale to bring us some people to do that?
Matt Watson 09:17
absolutely. And you know, back to when I started doing this six years ago. That’s how I did it. I had three different teams. I had my team leads in my office here in Kansas City. You know, we met every day, and then each one of those team leads had a team of two to four people that were in the Philippines, and that those kind of ratios work really, really well. Some people, so we were doing like one to three. Some people like one to two or one to one, like whatever ratio works for you. But having that local leadership, I think, really helps make it work even better. But you know, we also work with clients that have no developers. They have nobody, you know, just like, if you came to me and you’re like, hey, I need to build this mobile app for the podcast or whatever, I’m like, okay, we can help. Figure out how to do that. It depends on the use case, but it works better if you if you have in house talent. I think managing it.
Matt Wolach 10:07
yeah, I think that makes sense. I can see how that would be important. Now, a lot of these people who are listening right now, they’re working on growing their company, and maybe they’re in the early days, maybe they’re the tech person who built it. What are some of the challenges that they’re going to face as they grow, when they realize, oh, I need to bring on more engineers. I mean, you’ve grown engineering teams. What are some of the things that they’re going to run into as this team starts to scale?
Matt Watson 10:30
Well, you know, a lot of the challenges are always recruiting, like, how do I find people? You know, I don’t want to pay some IT Staffing Company, $20,000 – $30,000 right? Just to find somebody, it’s really hard to find good talent. One of the biggest challenges I had was simply retaining people at stackify. In a three month period, I had three of my key developers poached away. Like, one of them got an offer from amazon for a whole bunch of money, and there was no way I was gonna match it, and he left and moved to Washington to work for Amazon, right? Like, so from a staffing perspective, like, there’s a lot of challenges with just hiring people, retaining them, finding the right talent that you need right you’re like, oh, I need a mobile developer, or somebody has experience with React, or whatever it is. And so those are a lot of the challenges. It’s hard to find the right people, and working with firms like ours help a lot, because we don’t charge any of those fees. We don’t require a long term commitment. So you know, working with Dev agencies like us can help with some of those challenges. Some of the other challenges, actually, as a founder, is, is going from being like a doer to a leader, which is probably one of the biggest challenges as a as a tech founder, going from Chief type script officer to Chief Technology Officer is, like, a is a big leap for a lot of people.
Matt Wolach 11:45
Well, I think it’s a big leap in sales as well. One of the things we see is, okay, yes, this person is awesome at selling. They can make this happen. We’re going to move them into a management role where, guess what? Yeah, they do very little sales, and they’re actually managing people and recruiting it. It’s a completely different job. So, yeah, that’s kind of the same thing with engineers?
Matt Watson 12:04
It’s very similar, right? And I, for my first company, I was like, 23 years old when I started, and, yeah, I was like, the the wizard behind the curtain, you know, making it all work and writing all the code. And then, you know, over the course of that company, nine years later, I had a team of 40 so, you know, I’m the co founder the CTO managing 40 developers, and I was still only 29 years old, and so, yeah, it was like hard learnings of like, how to go through that kind of career progression, and learning from, like, being the doer to being the leader. You know, now it’s like over 20 years later, I think I finally figured it out. But it’s a hard progression, especially for a lot of founders, be it marketing, sales, development, whatever it is, it’s hard.
Matt Wolach 12:45
Yeah, the role just changes so much. And I’m working with several clients who have gone through that transition of, hey, I’ve been selling. I did great. But now, how am I going to manage this team? How am I going to how am I going to scale everything? How many take it out of my brain and give it to all of them easily? So it’s definitely a challenge, regardless of the role. I’ve seen that a lot. I want to ask you, especially around tech right now these days, technology, the advancement is incredible. I mean, you’ve got AI, obviously, and there’s all kinds of things. How is full scale staying ahead and ensuring that you know the knowledge of your team, the capabilities, the skills are remaining relevant for the market.
Matt Watson 13:24
Yeah, so internally, we do a lot of coaching, mentoring, training, like we have all these internal programs that we do, and we’re doing a lot of training around AI stuff. You know, everybody’s worried about AI, but from my experience so far, AI, more like saves me a few minutes a day or an hour, you know, 15 minutes here, 15 minutes there, an hour here, or something like that. It’s more of a little assistant that helps me do a little bit of things here and there. Doesn’t, like, replace somebody’s full time job. Now, maybe, if you had 100 people, you’re like, well, maybe I need two less now, maybe I don’t know, but it doesn’t really replace people individually. If anything, it’s creating more work, like more people are coming to us and say, Hey, I already have this software. I really need to integrate AI into it, like it’s creating more work, if anything. So we’re seeing more and more demand to implement AI related stuff, and I think that’s part of what we’re seeing in the larger tech market, is there are some layoffs, but then you have these same companies that are hiring other people to come do AI projects, right? Like hiring on that side of the business and letting people go on another side of the business.
Matt Wolach 14:27
Yeah, I agree. I think that’s something that everybody’s starting to think about. They’re thinking, how can we integrate AI into our platform? In fact, with my own software, we did the same thing, and now we can say that the platform has AI on it, but you’re right. We wanted to have that as something we could offer from the marketing perspective, and so it’s kind of forcing people to think differently about their application. Or maybe think, in addition to what we do, how else can we do it better? Or how can we add this thing? And you’re right. I think that we’re needing AI experts to come in and help us do that. I think that’s critical.
Matt Watson 15:00
Yeah, you do a lot with sales and marketing. I’d be curious to see how it’s impacted, you know, what you do and your clients, but like, how it’s impacted full scale in our marketing team is we’ve sort of just raised the expectations. It’s like, we expect you guys to get, like, twice as much done now, because you have these tools to help you, like, you can do more content writing. You can write content faster. You know, we haven’t reduced the team. We’ve just sort of raised the expectations.
Matt Wolach 15:23
I think that’s a great point. We have the same team, but we are producing so much more content now. It’s pretty ridiculous, and it’s something that’s really accelerated us. Our SEO is better. Things are just a lot smoother. It’s pretty cool. You’re right. I think that we’ve been able to add to it.
Matt Watson 15:38
Yeah, I think software development’s the same way. I think it’s kind of the point, right? It’s it’s helping us a little bit, and I don’t think it helps us near as much as it’s actually helped for, like, content creation, it’s maybe helped us like 10% it hasn’t helped us like, 100% like maybe some marketing stuff.
Matt Wolach 15:54
Sure, sure, that makes sense. Okay, so you’ve been a part of a lot of startups. You’ve worked with a lot of startups and a lot of software companies. What would you say, Matt, Are some of the mistakes that leaders are making, even if it’s not even just about outsourcing, but in growing and trying to get this company to where they need it to be. What are they not doing right?
Matt Watson 16:13
Well, I think part a lot of it is what you’re trying to solve. It’s, you know, figuring out product market fit. Did we build the right product? Did we overcomplicate the product actually, before we figured out the true market fit. Who are we selling to? How do we sell it to them? Like I feel like most early stage companies, that’s always the struggle trying to figure, do I need to build more product, more features, more widgets, more things, make it more complicated, or am I just selling to the wrong people? Or I have, you know, have the wrong messaging, and I’m sure that’s, you know, that’s the magic that you help people solve.
Matt Wolach 16:42
Yeah, it’s that’s absolutely true. I think what you talked about right at the beginning is, do you know your ICP intimately well? Like, do you understand who your ideal customer profile is? What do they do? What do they care about? What are they trying to solve? What do they hate? All that stuff’s critical because, I mean, it starts from the very beginning. You, I’m sure you and your teams have to know that from an engineering side, you got to be able to build the product towards those people. And then from our side, you’ve got to be able to market to them. How do you speak to them? What do you say in the sales process? All that’s absolutely critical.
Matt Watson 17:14
Yeah, and my, in my last company, stack five, we made all the mistakes related to this because I started out like I’m building this thing for myself, like, I know I need this, and I think everybody else will need it too. And that was a fundamental mistake. And then we were selling to other software developers. So it’s like, we’re selling to everyone, right? Like every software developer in the world could be a customer, which, as you know, means like, then you’re selling to nobody, right? If you’re selling to everybody, you’re kind of selling to nobody, like you’re not focused enough on a specific audience. And eventually we figured it out and narrowed the scope and and had more of a focus. But it was, it was still very hard, and we were always, never quite had that flywheel for product market fit. Like, really, really, really going. It was always a struggle. And I could have used your help.
Matt Wolach 17:59
Yeah, it’s so funny. Even people who’ve been around for a while and seen some level of success, when they come to me like, hey, it’s just stagnant. That’s one of the first things we look at. Is your ICP, and do you have a clear definition of it? And more than that, does everybody on your team understand that, not just the marketing sales, but your customer success, people, your engineering people. Does everybody fully understand who we’re actually going after and trying to serve? Because without that, it makes it so, so difficult to actually do anything within your business. So it’s funny that you saw that and realized that that was a challenge
Matt Watson 18:31
well, and we see this at Full Scale, right? It’s, it’s like, hey, we could sign up this customer. But part of me is like, no, they’re probably going to cancel in three months or six months, so I’m not sure I even want to sign them up, right? Like, because then that creates all sorts of downstream issues where it’s like, I could have given these resources to another client that’ll be here a lot longer. I’ll have less churn, I’ll have less problems, right? Like, so even in a service company like mine, not a SaaS company, we’re still thinking about, like, who do we want to sell to? And for us, it’s almost a partnership, like, is this the right partner for us? Now, it’s a little different with SaaS, because you’re like, well, if they cancel, they cancel, but then that affects your churn, affects your numbers. You’re still fighting churn, you know. And you know, especially if you’re trying to raise capital, and you’re looking at your retention rates and your churn all this stuff, like, the numbers look bad because you keep signing up the wrong ICPs, right? So it’s all a challenge even, you know, in every company and and I don’t think the challenge ever really goes away. We just get a little bit better at it, but nobody really perfects it.
Matt Wolach 19:29
Yeah, so true. And I do believe that it’s really important to not sell to the wrong people. Several bad things happen if you try to sell to the wrong people. First of all, you’re going to spend extra time with them, because they don’t quite get it. They don’t quite understand how it’s going to help them, and they they don’t know that they’re not a fit. So they’re trying to make it work, and you go through extra conversations, takes your sales team a lot of extra time. And secondly, if they do actually sign up, well then they’re going to bug your customer support team, and they’re going to ask questions about this and try to make this fit and try to do this, and it’s going to be really annoying and and frustrating. And then they’re going to tell their friends that this product sucks, because they don’t realize that they’re not the right fit. And so if you’re not set up with the right ICP, if you’re not selling to the right person, and they give you these bad reviews now everybody hates you, and they think that it’s not a good product, even though it was just that you sold to the wrong person and moreover, if you look at your CAC, your customer acquisition cost and your CAC payback, which is how long it takes you to get the money and revenue from what you spent on getting that customer. It’s probably going to be somewhere around six to nine months if you’re good, 10 to 12 months if you’re okay, and 12 months plus if you’re not so good at that, which means that even if you have them for two or three months, you lost money on them. That’s not good so you cannot sell to somebody who is not a good fit, not just from the engineering perspective, but also because it’s just not good business. So Matt, what do you think about that?
Matt Watson 24:33
So one of my favorite things I ran across one day. I’m sure you’ve heard of this before. Like people always struggle with their ICP, and we always want to serve everyone, right? So it’s really hard for us as entrepreneurs to like focus. But one of my favorite things I saw was identifying your crappiest customer profile. Like, who are your worst customers? Like, these are the ones you know you do not want to do business with. And I assume you’ve heard of that before, but it’s one of my favorite things I think everybody should think about.
Matt Wolach 25:00
It is so funny, and nobody really talks about that, right? Everybody always talks about your ideal customer profile, but thinking about your crappiest customer is also a good one and probably a little fun for the team to think about and put together. So I think that that’s good. I love it.
Matt Wolach 25:14
Okay, this has been amazing. I want to kind of wrap up here as we get towards the end. In general, companies who are growing, they know that they need engineering help. What tips would you give to software leaders in their in their early days, who are growing about outsourcing?
Matt Watson 25:30
I would definitely recommend they consider hiring global talent. Like 90% of software developers are not in the United States. You can work with firms like Full Scale, that you can trust and have contracts with, like us. Contracts help you with security, confidentiality, all these things that people really worry about, or you can go to Upwork and all these places and try and find freelancers. And some people have success with that. Some people run into all sorts of weird craziness. I’ve heard every story from the developers were really from North Korea, and they held me ransom, and it was they worked for the Mexican cartel. I’ve heard all the stories, but that doesn’t always happen, right? You can find good people. There are good people everywhere, but that’s one of the benefits and reason why people come to agencies like ours or like and I’ve dabbled with that mess. I just want to find a partner. I want to go hire like, 3, 4, 5 people and do this the right way, and have a long term trusted partner. I don’t have to worry about any of that. About any of that mess, and we only charge, on average, about $5,000 a month for a full time developer. So we make it very affordable, make it very affordable, and we, you know, we stand behind all of it, and, you know, be the trusted partner. So,
Matt Wolach 26:36
yeah, that’s amazing. And you mentioned Fiverr and Upwork, I would say, if I’m recommending a client, they’re coming. Hey, what should I do? I would say, Hey, if you’re just starting and it’s just you, or just you and your partner, and you have nobody else, and you need a couple things done, go to Fiverr and Upwork, like you get a couple things done. But if you are actually wanting to scale a team, and you have a project, and you have something that you need somebody to build, and you want to make that happen long term, to go forward, long term and long term, update and maintain that product and keep it awesome and grow it and make it amazing. Go to somebody like Full Scale and Matt, because they’re going to take care of you and you’re going to get an awesome team for a lot less than you would do it. So Matt, this is awesome. I want to make sure everybody knows how to get in touch with you and Full Scale. What’s the best way?
Matt Watson 27:17
So our website’s fullscale.io. You mentioned my podcast earlier. I have a podcast a newsletter. You can check it out at startup hustle, anywhere you you look for podcast or our website, startuphustle.XYZ
Matt Wolach 27:31
perfect. And we’ll put all that into the show notes. So if you’re listening or if you’re watching on YouTube, definitely check that out. But Matt, this has been fantastic. Thanks so much for coming on the show.
Matt Watson 27:41
Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Matt Wolach 27:43
You’re welcome everybody out there. Thank you for being here. Thanks for watching and listening. It’s been awesome having you again. Make sure you are subscribed so you don’t miss out on any more amazing tidbits and tactics like Matt just shared with us. Hit that subscribe button and then we will see you next time. Take care. Bye.
